TheRailwire
General Discussion => Layout Engineering Reports => Topic started by: ScrewySqrl on November 06, 2015, 08:12:19 AM
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I'm back once again building my n-scale track on a door. After struggling with spaghetti bowls (which was pointed out by many people here) i've come up with a much simpler plan.
(http://i.imgur.com/RFwwqYe.png)
Specs:
80" x 30" Hollow core door with 2" foam cover.
Atlas Code 80 track
Atlas Standard (#4) turnouts
Min radius 11"
Freelanced, Based on the original Norfolk & Southern Railway
Era: 1955-1975
DC.
This is downtown "Piney Plains" a fictional city in North Carolina serviced by the Norfolk Southern, with interchange with the ACL/SAL (and thus SCL) and Southern, with occasional Amtrak service.
My engines to be used will be a Kato RSC-2 re-shelled with an AS-16 from Shapeways, to emulate a Baldwin AS-416 (almost all of the AS-416s made were used by Norfolk Southern 17 of the 25 built), An Atlas GP-38-2 with grey NS paint, a Lifelike GP-20 that will be painted up to be a GP-18, and Fox Modern NS Heritage N/S loco (AC-44W GEVO - out of place for era, :scared: but Rule #1, and it has the right paint job :D) . Will also be occasionally visited by my 40-year-old Bachmann U36B SCL #1776 Bicentennial. Occasional 'heritage steam' might show up, too.
Rolling stock will be Boxcars, Closed hoppers (better to pretend its wood chips one run, corn the next, and pellets the one after that), Reefers, and tankers, with a few Intermodal cars thrown in (treated like boxcars). Passenger trains will also show up when I just want to watch 'em roll. As designed only 1 train will go on the main at a time, but the yard can be switched while another train runs.
Industries are typical North Carolina industries of the era. The Interchange will have a backdrop industry of a Textile Mill/Clothing Manufacturer(Burlington Coat Factory is after Burlington, NC) . Also present: Tobacco, the #1 industry in the era (Mine will be based on Durham's American Tobacco), Furniture (High Point still holds the worlds largest furniture design conference), Chemicals (Research Triangle Park), a Grain Elevator + mill (Based on the Cargill plant in Raleigh), a pier (like Morehead City), and a processed food factory (seen in Wilmington). all industries can take almost any type of car. The city name ("Piney Plains') is a residential street in Cary, only a few blocks from the Amtrak station, which always seemed like a great name for a Model Railroad layout.
My plan for this is to use the Super-nook yard (currently 8-5-5, but eventually 9-5-5 capacity) to build a 9 car train from 14 cars in the yard (using 1 suit of cards + joker), plus caboose. where each car goes will be determined by a six-sided die or a 4 sided die for Reefers.
My room is such that the long side will be against a wall, as will the right side (though I have about 6 inches clearance on the right side to at least work with), so no real scenic divider is available, though the downtown building will operate sort of as one. I do hope to have a bit of fun with the 'serious downtown' on the right and the 'wrong side of the tracks' version on the left
thoughts?
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no comment at all? :scared: :RUEffinKiddingMe:
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no comment at all? :scared: :RUEffinKiddingMe:
Give it time... people are at work, you know. ;)
Hmm... except for Kiz...
(http://bayouline.com/o2.gif)
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Operations-wise it looks like it should be a lot of fun. My only criticism would be that it looks a bit rigid geometry-wise... Can any of the straight track be replaced with flex track to have some more natural curves?
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Two things stand out to me. I'm never fond of a layout that doesn't have a way to work the yard without fouling the mainline.
Secondly, the left hand turnout's throwbar and points at the top right near the pier could be a problem, but probably can be addressed.
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How do passengers get to the Passenger station without walking across the track ??
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Two things stand out to me. I'm never fond of a layout that doesn't have a way to work the yard without fouling the mainline.
Yard is workable without touching the main, so thats a plus. where did you think it was fouling the main? Yellow is the yard (plus the pink caboose track), red is the main. the fuel/sand/oil is the end of the yard lead doing double duty on the small plan
Secondly, the left hand turnout's throwbar and points at the top right near the pier could be a problem, but probably can be addressed.
The actual pier I'm using is a bit thinner than what is drawn (It holds 1 track and one line of crates instead of 2), and the huge atlas throwbar is all on land
How do passengers get to the Passenger station without walking across the track ??
The area between the yard and the station will be a parking lot, so people access the station from that side.
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Operations-wise it looks like it should be a lot of fun. My only criticism would be that it looks a bit rigid geometry-wise... Can any of the straight track be replaced with flex track to have some more natural curves?
This. I'm digging it, but can you have a little smaller radius and twist the plan so that the long straightaways aren't parallel with the table edges?
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Freelanced, Based on the original Norfolk & Southern Railway
Era: 1955-1975
DC.
That is going to be a really occasional Amtrak in 1955 Why not an NS or SCL passenger train? It would give you more time period flexibility for your other rolling stock.
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Can any of the straight track be replaced with flex track to have some more natural curves?
This. I'm digging it, but can you have a little smaller radius and twist the plan so that the long straightaways aren't parallel with the table edges?
:| I'm open to suggestions from either of you . I'm generally not great with flex track (can never trim it well nor hold it in place well), but I could replace the long backstretch with a single piece of straight flex, but I'm open to suggestions on how/where to make the curves you both suggest!
That is going to be a really occasional Amtrak in 1955 Why not an NS or SCL passenger train? It would give you more time period flexibility for your other rolling stock.
:D :P Obviously I'll have ACL/SAL/Southern passenger service as well. Rainbow-era Amtrak is just another railroad that will show up. as for NS passengers, the original Norfolk Southern ceased all passenger traffic by 1950, even before it fully dieselized.
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guess there is nothing left to do but start building
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I would consider connecting the caboose track to the main on the left side, and make another track caboose storage
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I would consider connecting the caboose track to the main on the left side, and make another track caboose storage
I like this idea. The connected track:
1) becomes a freight bypass of the passenger station,
2) creates another passing siding for the track plan, which is a good thing,
3) can also be your arrival/departure track for the yard, which is missing in your current plan, and
4) unless you're always planning to run your freights counter-clockwise around the layout, a runaround on that side of the layout would be a plus.
Hope this helps,
DFF
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would consider connecting the caboose track to the main on the left side, and make another track caboose storage
I like this idea. The connected track:
1) becomes a freight bypass of the passenger station,
2) creates another passing siding for the track plan, which is a good thing,
3) can also be your arrival/departure track for the yard, which is missing in your current plan, and
4) unless you're always planning to run your freights counter-clockwise around the layout, a runaround on that side of the layout would be a plus.
Hope this helps,
DFF
For that the best place is the 19" curve in the lower left, coming into the longest yard track
that would look something like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/FGVhpYL.jpg)
I had to eliminate the full caboose spur, because the short strait was too close to the bumper. The new Caboose track location adds a new switching rule that once the 9 car train complete, the third yard spur must be cleared so the caboose track is accessible, the switch to the caboose track can be fouled while building a train, however. The A/D spur can also remain fouled. Road power will add a caboose if going counter-clockwise, the switcher if going clockwise. And vice versa for detaching (clockwise: swtxher, counter clockwise, road power). Road power adds because to add the caboose, we have to go out onto the main. The yard office moved to keep an excuse for the shorter spurs (the real reason, of course, being I want the extra switching challenge in the yard :D)
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I like all the action with the plan... You have a little "off the layout" stuff with the interchange.
But that upper area, the alignment of the purple line... it just looks too 3-rail-ish to me, and not how it would come off looking in the real world.
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I like all the action with the plan... You have a little "off the layout" stuff with the interchange.
But that upper area, the alignment of the purple line... it just looks too 3-rail-ish to me, and not how it would come off looking in the real world.
What do you mean? It's just the run around for the industries.
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I would lay the purple track so it had true parallel track spacing with the main.
I would also start place the left switch (if possible) that splits the purple track from the main, more to the right, even if you had too introduce a curved turnout in there, if for no other reason than to give the top part of the layout a more irregular look and not so symmetric.
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Well, I have started some level of construction,
got the yard laid out and the first part of the right hand curve section. Photos to follow soon!
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(http://i.imgur.com/11hJVBe.jpg)
an overall view of what I got done.
the atlas bridge piers are temporary, only until I get the trestle complete
a visit by a track inspector
(http://i.imgur.com/8kMnu8A.jpg)
Catzilla is everwhere!
a view of the yard spurs:
(http://i.imgur.com/S683sJa.jpg)
Need to straighten that just a bit. haven't applied power yet.
and a view of the yard lead and the curve
(http://i.imgur.com/De3OglE.jpg)
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Do you want the station positioned so it blocks the platforms and the train stopped there? if not you should run the track on the yard side of the station and flip the station around.
And are those first-generation Atlas turnouts? Plastic frogs and not the most reliable switches ever made, just so you know.
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Do you want the station positioned so it blocks the platforms and the train stopped there? if not you should run the track on the yard side of the station and flip the station around.
And are those first-generation Atlas turnouts? Plastic frogs and not the most reliable switches ever made, just so you know.
The station will be mostly platforms, so the train wlll be visible through it. And it forms a partial view block to separate the yard from the rest of the track. And yes, those are orginal Atlas turnouts. Not the best (though apparently more reliable than Kato's #4s) ,and the swtch machines are ugly. but they're easy to manually operate and inexpensive! (half the cost of powered)
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Ease the curves up on the main by the passenger station by putting it on the bottom of the station. Plus you can see your train while its stopped, ect.
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it forms a partial view block to separate the yard from the rest of the track.
Really I think that's another good reason to flip the station and track arrangement. It makes much more sense for the tracks to be grouped together (perhaps with a fence between the platform track and the closest yard track) and the parking lot side of the station to be against the road. That arrangement would also put the tracks (and presumably fence) between the publicly accessible station and the employee-only areas of the yard and switch tower. Finally, I'm not sure which station kit you're planning on using, but generally the trackside face of the station is the more interesting one, so it would be nice to face that toward the outside of the layout.
Just some thoughts.
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Railroads also tend to keep all their tracks in the same ROW, as much as possible. This makes maintenance, restricted access, safety concerns easier to deal with. In your version, the passengers have to cross tracks, get close to the yard area, and wind up getting on/off trains by being in the middle of the trackage. Very dangerous. The railroads put stations between the main road or drive leading to the station and the track partly to prevent passengers from wandering into the path of some moving train.
This is just prototype practice. You can set up your layout any way you want. However, I've found it's best to have a logical or real-life reason for every feature. You may appreciate it as you advance in modeling skills.
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I agree with the others who say to reverse the station and the track so the station entrance is on the street. While there may be a prototype for your arrangement somewhere, I cannot think of any. Unless you are modeling a specific unusual prototype location, it is better to model the common practice. I did a Google search for Railroad Station images and did not find even one example where the station entrance did not face the street.
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So, you're laying your track directly on your extruded polystyrene base?...no cork?
I'd recommend using Midwest Cork Products N-scale Cork Roadbed under your track for at least a couple of reasons: (1) It deadens noise, (2) It looks a helluva lot more prototypical, raising the tracks up above the surrounding terrain for drainage, (3) It allows your sidings & industrial trackage to easily be lower than your mainline trackage...also looking more prototypical, and (4) it allows you to SAND (using a flat sanding block) the surface you're laying your track on...which makes it more reliable and better running.
The cork roadbed also allows you to get wiring to your rails in a more unobtrusive manner than just laying it on plywood or extruded polystyrene, and...you can sand in a bit of superelevation if you want on your mainlines, also making them appear more prototypical.
If you're not interested in anything prototypical, points (1) and (4) alone are very important reasons to use it.
if you're just blocking your track together before laying down the cork, then remember to sand the surface of your glued-down cork before gluing down your track.
Cheerio!
Bob Gilmore
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With everyone telling me to turn the staion around, I am doing so!
here's the modified track plan to turn the station around:
(http://i.imgur.com/HPeETlU.jpg)
on the positive side: the station now faces the street, and there is plenty of room for a parking lot, the hotel moving over looks better too. It alaso makes the track somewhat asymmetrical.
But, as I feared, it practically eliminates parking space for the yard employees.
As for laying track direct on foam? no, I'm not doing that. I'm just placing and joining the track. once everything is placed and properly joined together, then I'll add the roadbed. I have 3 rolls of Woodland Scenics foam roadbed to glue down once track is finalized.
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But, as I feared, it practically eliminates parking space for the yard employees.
Well, are you more interested in modeling railroads or parking lots? Whichever is more important should get the most amount of space on the layout. :?
If you need to know where a RR employees parking lot is, say it's off the front of the layout, on the opposite side of the yard from the station.
BTW, a passenger hotel near the station is pretty prototypical. And you might include a RR workers hotel, a kinda rundown place right next to the bail bonds store but within easy walking distance of the yard.
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VMEkX4THqTA/VkOKCdFmTXI/AAAAAAAACX0/S0mytysaYSw/s1155-Ic42/HPeETlU.jpg)
I would remove the 5" straights you have by the orange arrows, that will open the red curves up allowing for better turning radius for passenger cars. It will allow you to move the mainlines in red and purple out gaining about 5/6" inches of space inside the layout as well as smooth the transition S you have, which will make passenger cars look better while in the curves. It will also allow you to lengthen the yard by 5 inches too, by moving the yellow switches apart to meet the red switches. Since real estate for parking is a must, I moved the switch tower and yard office to the yard lead allowing your switchmen to see down the main, while still seeing all of the yard throat and still have a place to park.
I know you wanted a trestle but it would look out of place at almost water level only a few inches away from the furniture warehouse and chemical plant. You might opt for a retaining wall or rocky embankment considering its right next to what would amount a ship servicing pier. I also allowed flipped the fuel company building to the outside allowing the siding to follow the main (after you open up the radius).
Humbly Submitted,
The S.
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-VMEkX4THqTA/VkOKCdFmTXI/AAAAAAAACX0/S0mytysaYSw/s1155-Ic42/HPeETlU.jpg)
Or even something like this.
[attachimg=1]
You get multiple passing sidings that lap, so they can be one long siding, or two shorter ones. I would also consider adding a run around on your industrial track at top, or your switcher will have to circle the loop to service the facing point turnouts.
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That's much better Peter.
The plan has a more free-flowing look to it and the gap is eliminated between the purple siding and red main.
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taking your suggestions under advisement:
(http://i.imgur.com/XXSWLzm.jpg)
I wrap the interchange around the left side, giving a lot of length for visible staging, plus a 'dummy' switch letting the track continue off the upper end of the layout. In addition there is room to have a cassette bring in other powr at the bottom left as needed. might swap the rerailer position to match the road.
Now I'm going to go actually start laying this track down this weekend, so uless someone has serious objections to how this looks, I'm gonna run with it!
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well, the track is placed!
I had to modify the track plan because I ran out of left hand turnouts, so had to substitute two right hand turnouts
this is the trackplan as actually built:
(http://i.imgur.com/FlQHKyU.jpg)
here's a typical train consist
(http://i.imgur.com/MztjlxB.jpg)
and a close up of the train
(http://i.imgur.com/Jm5lPnu.jpg)
a close up of the modified section of the plan:
(http://i.imgur.com/K4B34hQ.jpg)
a view of the yard and station:
(http://i.imgur.com/ZcGnlbO.jpg)
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Exciting!
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Now, to make life easier for yourself, carefully straighten and remove any kinks in your trackwork, using push pins or masking tape to temporarily hold the alignment. Then, trace your track, so you can try to get the roadbed installed with minimal problems for the reinstallment of the track. This is actually one advantage of flextrack, because you don't have to be exact in the installment of the cork roadbed, except around turnouts. There is some flexibility that you will not have using sectional track.
DFF