TheRailwire
General Discussion => Product Discussion => Topic started by: Scottl on February 03, 2015, 08:08:02 PM
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Another stellar piece of MOW equipment from Showcase Miniatures. Very nice looking model.
http://www.showcaseminiatures.net/n-scale-vehicles.html (http://www.showcaseminiatures.net/n-scale-vehicles.html)
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I have to agree Scott, they do some awesome stuff for us in N.
Rod.
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Awesome but I really wish that they would use brass (not stainless steel) for the parts. It is stiffer than brass, but in this type of application that is not really an important factor (assembled cab will be plenty stiff due to its shape). I prefer to solder things like that. Soldering results in much cleaner and stronger assembly (no futzing with CA glue). Stainless steel can be soldered but it is much more difficult. The solder will not flow into the joints like with fluxed brass. That is one of the reasons brass models are made of ... brass.
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Anyone know when these were first put into service?
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Awesome but I really wish that they would use brass (not stainless steel) for the parts. ... Soldering results in much cleaner and stronger assembly (no futzing with CA glue). Stainless steel can be soldered but it is much more difficult. ...
This is my exact issue with the signals. Soldering the ladders and platforms would result in a much stronger unit. CA is a real bugger especially during assembly where you might have to put a little pressure on something for alignment. I had the mast, ladder and safety railings all done... I thought... in prep to receive the LED head. Picked it up for painting and the thing just crumbled in my hand. It's hard to get a secure CA joint with these ultra-fine etch wires without globbing it. Soldering, I could do. :(
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Awesome but I really wish that they would use brass (not stainless steel) for the parts. It is stiffer than brass, but in this type of application that is not really an important factor (assembled cab will be plenty stiff due to its shape). I prefer to solder things like that. Soldering results in much cleaner and stronger assembly (no futzing with CA glue). Stainless steel can be soldered but it is much more difficult. The solder will not flow into the joints like with fluxed brass. That is one of the reasons brass models are made of ... brass.
So when you emailed them this suggestion Peteski, what did they say?
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I'm a glue person myself, so I don't have an issue with this, but I do agree that sending them a suggestion would probably be well received. I'm quite impressed with this company on a number of fronts.
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I have corresponded with Walter and Debbie on several different subject - they are both very helpful and receptive to ideas presented to them.
Some recent communications I had were about:
Request to re-issue Phat Boys Diner - it was reissued.
Problem with the trailer tongue of the hot-dog stand: problem was noted, explained and resolved.
Problem with molding quality of the KW tractor and the I-type truck : problem noted, explained and resolved.
Suggested using brass instead of stainless on the Ballast Regulator : Suggestion declined. IIRC the explanation was that brass didn't have enough strength in the thickness they use. Too bad becuase of the difficulty of cleanly and precisely be able to solder the parts together. I realize that I'm in a small minority of modelers who solder photoetched kits, but it would still have been nice.
Due to the above I don't think suggesting using brass on this kit woudl be any different than on the ballast regulator. I'm not going to bother.
Suggested adding mounting pegs to the N scale rear view mirrors for cleaner installation (like they H0 version has): Suggestion declined. Too difficult for modelers to accurately drill tiny holes in the models.
Suggested using a odorless resin for their cast parts (because I hate the strong mothball small of their resin). Many resin kits manufacturers now use odor-free resin : Suggestion declined - they use an outside vendor for the resin parts and they have no control of what resin is used.
As you can see, I have been in communication with them for some time. Some of my suggestions have been accepted and all the problems have been resolved. Showcase Miniatures is very receptive to their customer's input and with all the well-picked new products they are producing, I predict that they will continue to be a very successful company in the years to come. But I guess they cannot please everybody all the time. But I also disagree with some construction methods or material choices they make.
As far as soldering goes, without soldering I could have never cleanly assembled N scale kits such as these (not Showcase Miniatures).
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Pete, everyone has a medium they are most comfortable with. Obviously Walter likes pewter, and to a lesser extent resin, laser cut wood and etched steel. I am happy with his choice of materials.
Also note these frets are often combined, so it may be on the same tray as their side view mirrors or something else that needs to be steel.
Oh, on an unrelated note, Showcase is back to using clamshell plastic cases for their kits. They also have a great resin box truck body available separately.
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Pete, everyone has a medium they are most comfortable with. Obviously Walter likes pewter, and to a lesser extent resin, laser cut wood and etched steel. I am happy with his choice of materials.
Also note these frets are often combined, so it may be on the same tray as their side view mirrors or something else that needs to be steel.
I simply disagree that the cab parts for either kit need the strength of stainless steel. Brass would be more universal as it can easily be or glued just as readily. I have no problem with the other materials used (I only object the strong odor of the resin). But you could be correct that there are many frets for different models etched together. But still, that don't help my modeling. But I do actively contact model companies with my suggestions (as you all know, I'm not shy). :D
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I think a low temp, silver bearing solder (5-7% Ag / the rest Sn) will solder stainless steel together. I have some, but don't have any thin stainless to try it on, also, it's been a long time since I've used it, so I might be remembering it incorrectly. I'll have to do some research on it, and post results.
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Stainless can be soldered but it is not nearly as easy as brass. The solder also does wick as freely into the joint. Using hobby grade fluxes (no hazardous acids) and methods, brass is a lot easier to solder.
That is most likely the main reason for all the brass models to be made out of ... brass. It is much more friendly to work with. Anyways, I just posted my opinion. I am not keen on soldering stainless steel. That's all.
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Suggested adding mounting pegs to the N scale rear view mirrors for cleaner installation (like they H0 version has): Suggestion declined. Too difficult for modelers to accurately drill tiny holes in the models.
Huh? That doesn't sound like something that a company that makes vehicles the size of a dime would say. (not questioning you, just meaning it seems kinda funny to me that would come out of their mouths.)
Anyway, glad you mentioned that...I was about to order mirrors along with the tie crane so that saved me $6.
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Huh? That doesn't sound like something that a company that makes vehicles the size of a dime would say. (not questioning you, just meaning it seems kinda funny to me that would come out of their mouths.)
Anyway, glad you mentioned that...I was about to order mirrors along with the tie crane so that saved me $6.
Walter told me that it would be difficult for modelers to precisely drill holes in metal cabs (he was talking about his Showcase's cast vehicles). He then went on to say that just gluing them to the surface should be sufficient. I mentioned that doing so will be much messier than being able to apply glue just to the drilled holes, but he wasn't receptive to the idea. I even mentioned that if the mirrors came with pegs, less precise modelers could easily snip them off, but it is impossible for more-skilled modelers to add the pegs to the etchings. :)
I would say that you should still buy the mirrors (like I did) and contact Showcase with the suggestion to add the mounting pegs - maybe if they get enough suggestions they will change the artwork for the next run.
Speaking of the lack of mounting pegs, the same problem exists with etched locomotive windshield wipers. Some brands do not have any mounting pegs (or they are too short). They expect you to just glue them to the surface of the model. I buy the ones with pegs.
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Sounds like you were not receptive to his suggestion of gluing the mirrors :trollface:
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"Too difficult for modelers to accurately drill tiny holes in the models."
Huh? Then what am I doing with this box of reground #92 drills on my bench? No, that's not everybody's cup of tea, but... still. I've been drilling tiny holes since the 1960's. Hasn't everybody? :P
Bob's mention of tin/silver solder working for SS has me intrigued. I just instinctively thought that SS could only be worked with inert gas welders. I have a spool of Sn/Ag/Pb on the bench... might be worth messing with.
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"Too difficult for modelers to accurately drill tiny holes in the models."
Huh? Then what am I doing with this box of reground #92 drills on my bench? No, that's not everybody's cup of tea, but... still. I've been drilling tiny holes since the 1960's. Hasn't everybody? :P
Bob's mention of tin/silver solder working for SS has me intrigued. I just instinctively thought that SS could only be worked with inert gas welders. I have a spool of Sn/Ag/Pb on the bench... might be worth messing with.
You really need strong acidic flux which will remove the layer of oxide which makes the steel stainless. At that point any solder will stick. It is messy and in my experience the solder does not wet the steel as readily as brass (so I don't get the wicking action which results in very clean joints in brass).
As for the mirrors, yes, the only option i have is to glue them to the surface.
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You really need strong acidic flux which will remove the layer of oxide which makes the steel stainless. At that point any solder will stick. ...
Ahhhhhh... so that's it. Clearly I was asleep in metallurgy class... I just thought what made it SS was high carbon and small bits of a couple of other metals like nickel. So what inert gas welding does is prevent apparently super-fast reoxidation under all that heat.
So the corrosive flux is important because is stays on the to-be-joined area etching things away until burnt off by the solder flowing into the "cleaned" surfaces. Huh! Funny the stuff one learns around here.
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Funny the stuff one learns around here.
I'm no expert either - just repeating what I've heard/read/experienced.
Carbon in steel is for strenght. Stainless is made with chromium.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stainless_steel)
http://www.wikihow.com/Solder-Stainless-Steel (http://www.wikihow.com/Solder-Stainless-Steel)
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"Too difficult for modelers to accurately drill tiny holes in the models."
Huh? Then what am I doing with this box of reground #92 drills on my bench? No, that's not everybody's cup of tea, but... still. I've been drilling tiny holes since the 1960's. Hasn't everybody? :P
I think it's more the spacing of two drilled holes matching the spacing of the lugs. It's certainly not improbable but not the easiest thing either.
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I think it's more the spacing of two drilled holes matching the spacing of the lugs. It's certainly not improbable but not the easiest thing either.
Yes, that is true. The mounting pegs themselves (on the mirror assembly) could be pushed into the surface of the cab to mark the spots to be drilled. Not a rocket science. But I resigned myself that there are no mounting pegs. I must not be an average modeler... :|
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In all honesty, I'd much prefer the cabs were cast pewter.
I seriously doubt I have an interest in cutting, gluing - much less soldering the cab together.
Perhaps both parts could be included so clods like myself would actually build the things...
:)
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I had another email exchange with Walther from Showcase miniatures about stainless steel vs. brass photo etched parts (this time in the Shay kit). Here is what he stated:
There are a couple of reasons for the stainless etchings in the Shay kit. First of all, I am completely sold on using stainless over brass as much as possible because of its strength. We have a few kits that need the flexibility of soft brass (the signal hoods and Wigwag frames) but many of our parts benefit from the natural look of stainless and don't even require painting. While soldering metal kits is probably the most durable and permanent solution, I've found that a properly done CA joint can be just as secure with much less equipment expense and expertise required. This appeals greatly to me and probably many if not most of our customers.
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Anyone know when these were first put into service?
Anybody has an answer? I'm curious as well.
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I have the kit in hand and it appears to be made and designed to the typical high standards of Showcase. I lean towards preferring stainless here, as the parts are very fragile looking and brass would bend easily. I agree with Walter that the majority are probably assembling these with CA.
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I have the kit in hand and it appears to be made and designed to the typical high standards of Showcase. I lean towards preferring stainless here, as the parts are very fragile looking and brass would bend easily. I agree with Walter that the majority are probably assembling these with CA.
Yup, I happen to be i a small minority of modelers who prefer soldering the photo-etched parts whenever possible. :(
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Hello guys..
Just wanted to say that we really appreciate all of the comments and suggestions we receive at Showcase Miniatures - thanks! We try our best to accommodate as many of them as possible and apologize for those that remain unmet. We are always pushing the envelope in the design process to create detailed models that are accurate to their prototypes while trying to keep the assembly as easy as possible. Our choice of materials for the kits is directly related to these factors so I thought I might address one of the related comments here:
Stainless vs. Brass Photo Etch:
Personally, I prefer to use stainless as much as possible because of its strength. In regard to our etched side view mirrors, I thought about adding the pegs to the mirrors but drilling the soft metal cabs in exactly the right place can be problematic sometimes. A very sharp (new) drill bit of the right size is just about necessary and, since we use stainless to make a "pre-finished" product that doesn't require painting, removing the peg can be difficult without damaging the etching. Weighing the pros and cons, we decided that surface glueing would be the best and simplest solution. As for the cabs, we have been working on a way to place glazing in the windows for these parts and found what we think is an easy solution that we describe in the instructions for the Tie Crane. This method would not work very well with soldering the parts. So far, we have had only one customer say that they prefer brass over stainless ;) but this does not mean that we won't use brass parts in upcoming kits - that decision is based entirely on what we feel will best suit the model currently in design. We have also considered Lou's suggestion for a cast pewter cab and that may be offered as an option too.
Thanks again for your comments and suggestions - we are listening...
Walter
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Thanks Walter for your comments. I have both of the MOW kits and some other truck kits and they have all been very well designed for assembly and appearance. I hope you have more MOW equipment in the works- they are really great items.
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Now that we've confirmed that you're watching.....
One beef that I do have with most of the vehicle and MOW kits is the lack of timeline. We're still back to the issue of when that tie crane (and for me, the ballast regulator) date to, as well as all the neat hirail trucks. They look too modern to me as I'm doing the 70's, but frankly, I can't tell. I've got plenty of shots of Ford and International vehicles on PC during that period, maybe I could just swap out a cab to an older one. Or maybe not.
One thing I am glad to see on the new kit is much better guidance on painting. That and some prototype photos available at least on the website would make things a lot better. There's a lot of beautiful truck models out there but you can spend more time finding decent photos than actually building the model.
I'm a huge cast metal vehicle fan and get every one that I can possibly get that's time-appropriate and can possibly justify on what highway and parking space I have.