TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: mmagliaro on April 28, 2014, 04:03:56 PM
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Since Tony Hines asked about fitting the Maxon motor into a Kato Mikado, I figured now is the time to split this off from the discussion about molding lead weights and begin a proper project thread on my Mikado. This will be an NP W-5 using a Kato Mikado
and the GHQ W-3 pewter kit. I expect this to be a straightforward kit build with perhaps a few detailing and drivetrain
tweaks, hopefully not a massive scratchbuild.
For starters, here is the new Maxon motor fitted into the Mikado chassis. It actually drops right in and aligns with the worm
coupling with no shimming needed! You do have to grind some metal off the inside faces of the frame where the motor goes
in order to make it fit. I pulled out the drivers, gears, valve gear, everything, took the frame halves apart, and
then flat-filed the insides until I got enough clearance for the motor. You could probably do it with a Dremel and a metal grinding bit
without taking the chassis apart, but this makes things neater. Plus, I didn't have to tape everything up to protect against metal shavings in the gears.
The two blue solid state devices are 4.3v 1W zener diodes. I put then back to back, in-line with one lead of the motor.
This drops a fixed 4.3 volts. This is a 12v motor, but it actually starts turning and moving the engine at under 0.5 volt,
which can be very annoying! By knocking 4.3 volts off there, it operates in a more comfortable range for DC,
and the headlight will come on at full brightness before the engine starts to move. If you use a DCC decoder, you can
program the speed steps, I'm sure, to avoid this problem and the diodes wouldn't be necessary. The motor draws so little
current that even a 1/2 watt zener would do the trick. But I had these handy and they are still small.
Also shown: my home-made weight comprised of tungsten plate and lead, weighing 20g vs the stock weight's 10-12g.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/maxon1024_motor.jpg)
Note the big flywhee on the back. That is a 12mm. The original Kato is about 10mm and is much thinner. I had to
grind out some of the frame below the flywheel to allow clearance for it. The trick to getting it onto the backshaft of the Maxon
1024 motor was to first sleeve the shaft with some 1/16" OD K&S tubing. It won't fit over the shaft as it. You will need to
drill out the tubing with a #62 bit. Once I pressed it on (just finger tight), I put a drop of green Loctite on the tip to fix it.
Now, the tubing will actually be TOO BIG to fit inside the flywheel. So I ran the motor and held a file against it, checking frequently until I turned it down to just about 1.5mm to match the flywheel bore.
I prefer to do it this way because I find it a lot easier to get a perfectly true sleeve than to bore out the flywheel and keep it
true. Plus, this way, if there was any error when you bored out the tubing, you will correct it when you turn it down with the file and the flywheel will turn perfectly.
You need to be able to press the flywheel on with your
fingers. The motor shaft cannot tolerate any pushing or twisting. Again, LocTite will fix the flywheel. The trick is to get it snug
so it won't wobble, but not so tight that you need to really "press" it on.
Here's the turning of the shaft sleeving:
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/turningBackshaftSleeve.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/polishedSleeve.jpg)
Here's some video of the mechanism running.
I put a black mark on the flywheel with a sharpie so you can see how slow it turns. And remember, this one does not
use a gearhead, even though I normally like gearheads.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k25MU0kFZUg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k25MU0kFZUg)
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Siiiick. Looking forward to another awesome build thread.
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Max,
For future reference, K&S now has metric tubing. It makes creating adaptors very easy now.
http://www.ksmetals.com/26.html
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I usually find the correct OD and ream the center out to meet what I need.
Also looking forward to the build 8)
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Thanks Tony and Chris. I didn't realize they made metric tubing. I just tend to use what I have on hand.
I never seem to have sleeving that is quite the right size. Sometimes, Eldon throws a little piece of sleeving in with the motors I buy from him, so I have it ready-made. But this Maxon was just in my stash. (You know it's serious when you actually
have a "stash" of precision coreless motors, ha ha. But in all seriousness, they are expensive, so I snap them up whenever I stumble on a good buy.).
I am amazed at how good this one runs. That 1024 is just so whomping powerful. I just clocked it at
.068 scale mph. I did not make a mistake on the decimal point. It took about 1 hr and 15 min to go 3 feet.
I am seriously tempted to remove the flywheel, and give up that room so I can put a 4:1 gearhead on it.
The engine is geared way too fast anyway, and I suspect I would be even happier with its performance
with the huge torque boost of the gearhead.
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I'm watching this build........make my W3 build look like childs play!!
Looking forward to this one!!
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I'm watching this build........make my W3 build look like childs play!!
Looking forward to this one!!
Actually, Mike, I am really hoping this will be a simple build. The W-5 is identical to the W-3 except for the location
of a few appliances, some piping, and the compressors sitting on the smokebox front. This gives is a larger,
beefier appearance, but it is in fact the same boiler. So this should be a straight-ahead GHQ W-3 kit build,
with some detail rearrangements, not some unholy monster like the SP&S 4-6-2 was.
In fact, I am hoping this will be one of those engines that anybody with a W-3 kit can do. It's time
we had more W-5's in the world.
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"It's time we had more W-5's in the world...."
...He said as I make the sign of the Keystone... :facepalm: :D
Can't wait to see more Max!
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Siiiick. Looking forward to another awesome build thread.
I'll second (or third or fourth) that.
Mark in Oregon
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Max,
For future reference, K&S now has metric tubing. It makes creating adaptors very easy now.
http://www.ksmetals.com/26.html
Now hold on there Tony,
I picked up some 1mm, 1.5mm and 2mm K&S tubing last night. The bad news is that the tubing is sized to the O.D. and each has a 0.225mm wall thickness. That calculates to 0.55mm, 1.05mm and 1.55mm ID, respectively. So for those metric motor shafts, the extra 0.05mm of clearance is too loose and the tubing will be cocked or eccentric. Boo hiss...
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Even if this project is "Simple", if it's a Max project, it's gonna be a good one.
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A couple of things I would keep in mind if I were doing this conversion. You may have already thought of them but to me they are key spotting features of the W-5. first, the sandbox is different. The W-5 has a more square look to it. The W-5 has a delta trailing truck. The W-5 has a longer tender. For this last one, the dimensions of the USRA tender are the same. I would sand off the rivet detail and re-do it with Archer decals and then rebuild the coal bunker using the W-3 casting as a guide. Lastly. Become good friends with Gregg Scott and he will give you all the appropriate parts so you don't have to do it yourself.
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/672/NPW51858.jpg)
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A couple of things I would keep in mind if I were doing this conversion. You may have already thought of them but to me they are key spotting features of the W-5. first, the sandbox is different. The W-5 has a more square look to it. The W-5 has a delta trailing truck. The W-5 has a longer tender. For this last one, the dimensions of the USRA tender are the same. I would sand off the rivet detail and re-do it with Archer decals and then rebuild the coal bunker using the W-3 casting as a guide. Lastly. Become good friends with Gregg Scott and he will give you all the appropriate parts so you don't have to do it yourself.
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/672/NPW51858.jpg)
Thanks, Andrew. Yes, I did take note of all that you mention (sand dome, delta truck, and tender, especially). Plus,
the walkways are different, the cab is shifted 12" from the W-3, and there are some other things.
I supposed I glossed over this when I said "just a few applicances", ha ha! To me, if the valve gear, drivers, and wheelbase are right, and the overall boiler length and shape are right, the rest is "details".
That 28' tender means that the Kato underframe should work perfectly as-is (as opposed to the early W-3's where you
need to chop a piece out of the tender chassis to shorten it).
The delta truck can come from the GHQ L1, or even an old Trix truck. As for the tender - definitely, sand it up, reshape
the bunker and then use the rivet decals. Thank goodness for those Archer rivets. They make so much
more of this possible!
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Andrew, that's one good looking locomotive, and a great looking model!
Max, I'm going to follow this build, you always inspire me with your steam projects.
Best, Otto K.
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Andrew, that's one good looking locomotive, and a great looking model!
Max, I'm going to follow this build, you always inspire me with your steam projects.
Best, Otto K.
Andrew's W-5, which first appeared on the forums several years ago, is the whole reason I'm building one.
I wasn't even doing NP back then, but I saw that and never forgot it. Now that I'm doing NP/SP&S, I
still haven't forgotten, and I'm a gonna build me one. Andrew's model is simply beautiful.
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Remotoring, take 2.
Although the Maxon 1024 worked great, I was not happy with the high speed and the slow-downs on hills with a heavy train.
I also felt that while it could creep at amazingly low speed, once it got up into the "normal" slow range or about 2-5 mph,
the motion of the drivers just wasn't uniform enough.
Fixing the binds in the mechanism discussed in my other thread helped, but not enough.
So now I have switched to a Maxon 1017 motor + 4:1 gearhead. The 1017 is 7mm shorter, allowing room
for the gearhead. I had to give up the flywheel. But the gearhead's performance more than makes up for it.
The top speed at 12v is 37 mph. That sounds a little on the slow side. But I was actually surprised that it was only 37
when I measured it. I thought it was going faster than that. I think I have become accustomed to engines
running at low speed because I prefer them that way, so 37 doesn't seem slow to me.
Here's a video of it. I am really thrilled with this. NOW we're ready to start engine building!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDGP1Rmcrbk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDGP1Rmcrbk)
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Max
As usual,you da man! Am looking forward to watching the next phases...
Mark in Oregon
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Sweet! I am still drooling. That is some amazingly smooth slow speed.
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Thanks, guys. Sometimes you just get lucky. The motor is great, to be sure, but putting it into an already excellent-running mechanism like the famed Mikado really puts it over the top. I don't think I've ever been able to make one run as good
as this thing. The responsiveness and feel as it starts out and picks up speed is hard to describe or capture on video.
Havin' fun!
Collecting photos and parts. The build will come soon enough.
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Max, how does this run compared to your 2-10-0 with the 6 volt Faulhaber 1016 + 4:1 gearhead? Is the Maxon 1017 12 volts?
My Kato mike is pretty much the oldest N scale steam that I still have and it could use a new friend ;)
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Max, how does this run compared to your 2-10-0 with the 6 volt Faulhaber 1016 + 4:1 gearhead? Is the Maxon 1017 12 volts?
My Kato mike is pretty much the oldest N scale steam that I still have and it could use a new friend ;)
This one beats the I1. The I1 is no slouch. It can run at under 1 mph. But this one definitely has an edge for
smoothness and even better overall responsiveness and slow speed uniformity of motion.
The Maxon is rated at 0.75W maximum vs the Faulhaber's .42. Stall torque beats the Faulhaber
as well. Many of the Maxons beat the Faulhabers in these smaller sizes because Maxon uses neodymium magnets,
but Faulhaber still uses samarium cobalt, which does not produce as strong a magnetic field in the same space.
As for voltage: I am utterly confused. I *thought* this 1017 was a 12 volt. But looking at the data sheet, it should only
be able to spin about 11,900 rpm at 12 volts. With the Mikado's 36:1 ratio x my 4:1 gearhead, that's 144:1
With 63" drivers, I only get a top speed of about 15 mph, but I am definitely at 37.
So check me. Maybe my math is wrong, or the Mikado's built-in ratio isn't 36:1
(or maybe this motor is a 6v and I'm driving it to 12, so I'm getting 24,000 rpm out of it, but I really don't think
so. That seems impossible, especially as quiet as it is).
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Going by the catalogs I have motors of certain sizes come in several voltage ratings. So hypothetically a 1017 motor could have windings for 6V, 12V or other voltages. The 1017 number only denotes its physical size. Nominal voltage should be specified elsewhere on the motor.
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Going by the catalogs I have motors of certain sizes come in several voltage ratings. So hypothetically a 1017 motor could have windings for 6V, 12V or other voltages. The 1017 number only denotes its physical size. Nominal voltage should be specified elsewhere on the motor.
Yep, I know. And the voltage is not denoted in the motor's number on Maxons. That's one thing that infuriates me about the numbering on Maxon motors. They usually have some cryptic number on them that does not match up to any number in their catalog.
I called about this and a Maxon rep was able to look it up and tell me what it was, but it took several days for
them to get back to me. Basically, when they do a large run for an industrial customer, they give the motor a custom
number, and they record what that number really maps to in their catalog, but there is no way for a second-hand
purchaser of said motors to find out what's in there.
Faulhabers have a very clear numbering system that denotes voltage, gear ratio (if any), bearing type (ball bearing or bronze friction),
and other choosable parameters.
BUT.... I notice that the terminal resistance of the motors is given on the data sheet. Bwa ha ha ha. I can measure and figure it out.
Be back soon.
I'll tell you this, if my calculations are correct, that motor would have to be spinning at 29,600 rpm for me to get 37 mph, and that
just does not seem possible. It's a good motor, but that's 11,000 over it's maximum allowable RPM, and I would expect it to be
screaming (which it's not), if it didn't just self-destruct, that is.
Maybe the Mikado ain't 36:1. I'll check that again too.
-- M
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I have a couple Maxons from MTL Z locos, but I'm guess you got yours from Eldon. I can just do the same. Plus then I don't have to fit the tiny gear on the shaft.
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Chris,
I actually DID fit the tiny gear on the shaft. I took one of my spare plastic Maxon 16:1 gearheads (I grab these when I can if they are cheap so I can harvest extra parts from them). Inside, right at the nose, there are 3 blue plastic planetary gears. They come right out and they are the perfect size for pinions. I just pushed one of those onto the motor shaft after grinding the shaft against a cutoff disk to get
it just a bit smaller so it would fit. Drop o' Loctite, and it was good to go.
Measurements:
Confirmed: The Kato Mikado's internal gear ratio is 36:1
Measuring my 1017's terminal resistance, I get 20.5 ohms, which maps to one of the two 6v models they make.
So it must be a 6. It has a rated no-load rpm of 13,000, and I would bet with the gearhead it is able to do that
because there is so little load on it. But that means that at 12v, I am revving it up to, yes, 26,000 (or more like 29,000 according to
my engine's top speed measurement).
It sounds crazy, but it sure does run smooth and quiet. I suppose since the gearhead shields it from all the shaft loading,
as long as the coreless basket (the logical "armature") doesn't fly apart and the bearings don't burn up, it can handle it.
The current draw is miniscule, even up hill with a 20 car train... about 40 ma. The maximum rated continuous current
on this motor is 170 mA, so it's loafing.
Well, I a gonna leave it just like it is as long as it runs this good.
Chris (and all), I am going to do a photo thread on how to cut down these gearheads to make 4:1 out of 16:1, and how to
use the planetaries as pinions. When I get some time....
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I am going to do a photo thread on how to cut down these gearheads to make 4:1 out of 16:1, and how to
use the planetaries as pinions. When I get some time....
I am so looking forward to this! it will be studied very carefully and a guide through the process of several locomotives.
thanks for what you have already posted and for those still to come.
appreciation,
Gary
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What a slick machine. Does it get hot to the touch after running at 12 V for a while?
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What a slick machine. Does it get hot to the touch after running at 12 V for a while?
No. Certainly not. There's an important thing about DC motors that most people completely overlook, and that is,
it's all about current, not voltage. A motor will draw a minimum current at a certain voltage, just to spin with no
load on it. But the more load you put on it, the more current it will draw. It's not like a simple fixed resistance.
As long as you don't pass too much current through the brushes and the windings, you are fine, regardless of the voltage.
The thing is, in conventional motors, usually if you drive them at double their nominal spec voltage, the resistance of the armature coil wire is low enough that it will happily draw more current than the wire can handle and burn itself out, even with no load on the motor.
But not so in these coreless beauties. On the bench with no load, this motor only draws 5 ma at 12 volts, even though it's a "6v nominal" motor. And it is rated at a maximum current of 170 ma. Holding the shaft in my fingers on the bench, squeezing as hard as I can, the load still only gets up to about 80 ma.
Under load in my engine, up hill with 20 cars in tow, it only draws about 40 ma.
So even at 12 volts, it is drawing way below its rated current, and it doesn't even get warm.
The only danger is that the thing is running at speeds way above the stated maximum rating, so I would worry that the bearings
can't take it, or the spinning "basket" could physically fly apart at these speeds. But it seems to be doing fine.
Since I've run Faulhabers at speeds and voltages well above theirr maximum for years, I'm willing to let this Maxon go and
see what happens. If it fails after 20-30 hours of running, then I'll know never to try that again. But I highly doubt that will happen.
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Thanks Max. I agree that it's about the current and the bearings. If it's rated at 170 mA and you're drawing 40, and if you're not hearing any significant noise, you should be fine. Once again: a very nice machine!
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Hello again everyone. It's time to get back to the NP W-5!
First, here is the chassis with the second powerplant that I eventually settled on, a Maxon 1017 + 4:1 gearhead,
rather than the original 1024 with no gearhead. The motor is covered by some tungsten and lead plate in this photo:
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/001x_maxon1017motorgearhead.jpg)
Next, I began working on adjusting the boiler so it properly fits onto the frame. Since we last visited this project,
I had the good fortune to receive a care package from Gregg Scott at GHQ containing the actual W-5 (not W-3) castings that he
made for this engine. He advises me to let folks know that he does have more sets of these parts, and will consider making them
available for sale depending on the level of serious interest people show in this project as I move along on it.
I will be documenting this step-by-step, and this thread will be your W-5 "instructions" if that kit does become available.
It will require some work. If Gregg does make the W-5 available, it will be a set of parts with the expectation that you
will use prototype photos and drawings and craftsmanship to build the engine. There will be no "kit instructions".
I am hopeful that what I present here in the coming weeks and months will be enough encouragement and documentation for
people to want to try more of these.
Now... on to the project.
I am building this using W-3 parts and the extra W-5 parts. I am using the W-3 instructions somewhat
as a guide, but what I need to do here is a hybrid between that kit and the W-5 prototype information I have.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/003x_cutOffFrameEars.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/004_removedFrameEarsAndCylinderPipes.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/005x_fileSteamPipes.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/006_frontBoilerHeight.jpg)
A word about this boiler height thing:
Getting the boiler on the frame correctly, at least to me, is critical at this point because it will become the reference upon which everything else is based (location of appliances, piping, distances of other parts away from the drivers, etc). I
paid special attention here so I can keep the overall proportions right.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/007_rearBoilerHeight.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/008_rearBoilerHeight.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/009_placedBoiler.jpg)
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You should send Gregg a link to this and your othe projects just to show him that people still kitbash steam.
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You should send Gregg a link to this and your othe projects just to show him that people still kitbash steam.
If memory serves, Gregg doesn't use the internet. I know he doesn't use e-mail.
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Max you can let Gregg know their is at least one more NP Nut out there that would love an A-5! :D
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All:
I don't know if Gregg reads this forum directly, but he is aware of what goes on here.
That's why he contacted me, because he found out I was going to make a W-5.
I don't know what he needs to hear in order to decide to make the kits available.
All I can tell you is, if you think you might want a set of parts, be aware that you will need
the W-3 kit PLUS these added W-5 parts that he has. They include a new boiler and tender shell,
and some other odds and ends. And the cost would be at least as much as one of the W-3 kits.
That's all I know.
A quick mention in here that you want one would be sufficient. At least there would be a running head count
and I'm sure that will get back to Gregg. He may eventually call me to ask how it's going.
I agreed to make this information public for him, but I really don't want to get involved in
the marketing strategy of Gregg or his business. That is strictly up to him.
So again, a mention that you would like a kit would be fine, but please, let's not otherwise derail this
thread from the focus of the engine building project.
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Max you can let Gregg know their is at least one more NP Nut out there that would love an A-5! :D
You mean W-5. Some NP nut YOU are! :D
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All:
I don't know if Gregg reads this forum directly, but he is aware of what goes on here.
I think Andrew Hegstad is his conduit.
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You mean W-5. Some NP nut YOU are! :D
oops, fat finger......although I would take an A-5 kit also :D
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I think Andrew Hegstad is his conduit.
Gregg follows the forum but he doesn't contribute. Why is that Gregg?
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I suspect he'd get buried in requests
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We now move on to the W-5 cab.
There are two sets of cab sides in the W-3 kit. Use the ones with the small rectangular recessions in the panel just ahead of the cab window.
Gregg also sent me a pair of sides, but I cannot see any difference between those and the ones in the W-3 kits I have on hand.
As with the boiler adjustment and placement in the preceding step, getting the cab assembled straight and plumb, and getting it mounted on the boiler straight so the cab rides at the correct height, are the key elements here. After this installement,
I will get the tender body set and then the whole basic engine will be in place with the correct height and proportions.
I had made a custom-shaped Mikado weight that weighed 20g (vs the stock 10-12g). Because the GHQ boiler is thicker,
I did have to give up some of my weight and use the Dremel on the inside of the GHQ boiler to get it to fit over what weight
I left in there. But in the end, I gained a net 10 grams by keeping my weight (as opposed to just discarding it and relying on
the boiler's heft). So it was worth the work to make the weight fit under there.
As always, I hope the picture captions tell the story.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/010cabSides.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/011cabSidesFit.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/012cabSidesFit.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/013cabSidesFit.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/014joinCabToBoiler.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/015cabFitErrorExample.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/016cabFitStraight.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/017cabHeight.jpg)
After you have checked and checked again, reenforce your cab/boiler joint with 2-part epoxy such as JB Weld, and then let it get thoroughly hard.
I must say, I felt a twinge of excitement when this assembly was together and sitting properly on the frame.
It is starting to look like the NP W-5.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/018cabFitStraight.jpg)
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Great job as always Max. I love the height tips. Thanks.
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I have been shopping for a Mikado so use for this conversion. 12 diesels to get off the workbench and then I'm going to follow your tutorial on this one. Thank you!
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Thanks, guys!
And remember, the more vocal interest there is in the W-5 as an offered kit, the more likely it is that Gregg Scott will decide to make the parts available for sale.
At some point through this project, I will ask for a head count (PLEASE do not start chiming in now saying, "I'll take one!").
I want to do it in one organized moment so we can get a count.
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We now move to the tender floor/mechanical stoker support, lower firebox sides, trailing truck, and tender shell.
After fiddling with the tender floor casting, and looking at how it fits into the underside of the cab, I started looking at how the side of the casting (with the mechanical stoker) hangs down in relation to the cab, firebox, and rear of the engine. In the end, I decided to spot the stoker where I think it goes in relation to the rear of the engine and the cab window, rather than butt it up against the rear edge of the firebox casting, the way the GHQ W-3 instructions show.
The reasons for this are that I could easily fill the gap with a small bit of black styrene, and I believe that when the engine is painted, the visual location of the stoker and rear plate that hang down below the cab (relative to the cab window) will be more important than the little gap.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/019cabFloorPlateGapIssue.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/020fileCabFloor.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/021solderCabFloor.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/022cabFloor.jpg)
Now, I soldered the firebox sides in place. (Again, use epoxy if you are nervous about heating and melting the pewter).
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/023fireBoxAndFiller.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/024fireBoxInstalled.jpg)
The trailing truck:
In my other thread about needing a 45" wheel, I have since discovered that I was in error. While some NP 2-8-2's had a 45" wheel,
the W-5 has a 42". The Kato wheel is 38.6". It is a little small, but I think it will be okay, especially since most of it is hidden.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/025trailingTruckSanding.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/026trailingTruckSanding.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/027readBrakeShoeFit.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/028rearBrakeShoeMod.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/029rearBrakeShoeMod.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/030rearBrakeShoeMod.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/031rearBrakeShoeMount.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/032sideFrameMountCloseup.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/033sideFrameMount.jpg)
Dimensional Sanity Check:
At this point, I checked some key dimensions from the real erecting drawing. I have a few different drawings, but the best one I have is the one included in a CD produced by Robert Hundman and sold by the NPRHS entitled, "NP Steam Locomotive Erecting Drawings".
I'm showing it here for illustrative purposes, but it is low-resolution and blurred because it is copyrighted.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/034drawingCheck.jpg)
Tender Shell:
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/035TenderShellTrimming.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/036overall.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/037overall.jpg)
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...sure am enjoying this, Max.
You make it easy to see what you've done, and yours are far and away the best step-by-step I've seen yet! Or certainly as good as any... :)
Mark (also) in Oregon
-
It occurs to me that it might be a good idea to show the engine I am actually building, since I have chosen one.
It's this fellow here. NP #1847. Only #1844-1847 had Elesco feedwater heaters (evidenced by the big tank on top of the boiler right at the front of the smokebox, on top, like a big "brow"). I think this gave those 4 engines the most impressive, almost "brutish" look of all the W-5's, so I have chosen this variation.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/np1847.jpg)
And now, on to the model. Today, we have the valve gear modifications, and some work on the cab roof.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/038cutValveGear.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/039cutValveGear.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/040valveGearPost.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/041valveGearPost.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/042blackenAndScrape.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/043mountValveGearHanger.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/044mountValveGearHanger.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/045valveGearBracket.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/046addValveGearLink.jpg)
Now, some work on the cab roof:
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/047roofHatchHoles.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/048roofHatchHoles.jpg)
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I really like the prototype you have choosen. Do you know anything about the piston rod extending out in front of the cylinder? Did this help keep it lined up and from wearing out?
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I really like the prototype you have choosen. Do you know anything about the piston rod extending out in front of the cylinder? Did this help keep it lined up and from wearing out?
Chris, they were on a lot of the W-3 and W-5 engines, but were removed later in life
so I am not going to put them on mine. (The W-3 kit includes castings for those.) That photo I showed was probably taken in the 30s.
As to why they were ever put on there in the first place, I believe that yes, they were to help support the piston to reduce wear on the lower
surfaces of the bearing. My guess is that engine makers decided over time that they weren't necessary, or that
the amount of wear they were saving wasn't significant compared to having to maintain an extra seal and bearing surface.
Since I want this to be a 1950s engine, I will not be using them. They would also complicate things by getting in the way of the pilot
truck swing!
-
This installment is for the pilot. I learned a lot about how to do this from my 4-6-2 SP&S engine, so although this was still very tricky work, it went along quite straightforwardly, and I won't have any trouble with pilot wheel interference this time.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/049removePilot.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/050removePilot.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/051cutPilotDeck.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/052cutPilotDeck.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/053frontCoupler.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/054replacePilotSupport.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/055glueOnPilot.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/056couplerHeight.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/057pilotBeamPosition.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/058pilotBeamPosition.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/059screwpilotBeam.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/060pilotBeam.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/061status.jpg)
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Awesome Max! love the look of those pumps on the smokebox front- what a nightmare it must have been to get into the smokebox for repairs!
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Wonderful work Max. I learn so much from each of your build threads - thanks.
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Hello Max,
I love your pictures: I wish you had done this build before I completed my 4 W3s... :-)
For front couplers I have used MT Z-Scale couplers with cut back boxes, but installing them is a PITA.
I have never heard about the "Bowse Buckler": Google search showed them attached to Z-Scale trucks.
Did you buy the trucks and removed the coupler? Or are they available separately somewhere?
I still want to do a few more Mikados (one more W3 and W2 each), and an easier way to working front couplers would be most welcome... :-)
Cheers
Dirk
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Dirk, and all,
Part of the reason I am documenting this so carefully is because, well, that's just what I do when I show
an engine build.
But also, Gregg wanted me to show people how the W-5 parts went together so you could use this as a guide in case he makes the parts sets available as a kit.
The GHQ instructions are hard to follow in places. So a good step-by-step with color photos is important. I am hoping this will encourage more people to pull those GHQ kits off the shelf and try to build them.
The Bowser Buckler couplers I have were sent to me by a kind forumer. The only way you can get them that I know of is to buy trucks and cut the coupler boxes off. I have heard that there are ways to order very large quantities of them
from the fellow at Bowser who created these as a side project, but I have never done that.
For these, I cut off the coupler box, snapped open the box and removed just the coupler part with the whiskers on it.
I stuffed that into the pilot coupler box and "Ta Da!" It works.
You can get the trucks from a number of web sources like this one:
http://www.zscalemonster.com/full_throttle/100/
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Dirk, and all,
- snip -
The Bowser Buckler couplers I have were sent to me by a kind forumer. The only way you can get them that I know of is to buy trucks and cut the coupler boxes off. I have heard that there are ways to order very large quantities of them
from the fellow at Bowser who created these as a side project, but I have never done that.
- snip -
Check this message by Gary Hinshaw from "Best of the Wire" thread "Notes on body mounted couplers":
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=21980.msg366149#msg366149 (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=21980.msg366149#msg366149)
Cheers,
-
Hi again all.
This installment sees a wide gamut of assembly topics, but the one coherent idea here was to complete any major components that would affect
the weight or tracking of the engine, culminating in a test "shake-down" run (video included). He video link is all the way at
the bottom of this post.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/062smokeBoxParts.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/063shapeAndFitSmokeboxFront.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/064glueSmokeBoxFront.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/065testFitBoilerBottom.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/066correctSmokeBoxHinges.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/067smoothSmokeboxJoint.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/068smoothSmokeboxJoint.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/069headlightBoardMods.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/070InstallHeadlightBoard.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/071InstallFiberOpticTube.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/072flareFinishHeadlight.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/073BoilerBottomAndSteps.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/074compressors.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/075cutCabWindows.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/076CabWindows.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/077newTrailingTruckWheelset.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/078installedTrailingTruckwheelset.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/079shaveOffSandingLines.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/080airReservoir.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/081smallAirReservoirAndPinning.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/082elescoFeedWaterHeater.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/083elescoPump.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/084elescoPumpInstalled.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/085boilerMountParts.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/086boilerMountPlateInPlace.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/087boilerMountNewWeight.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/088boilerMounted.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/089sprungDriver.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/090fileCoverPlate.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/091statusLeftSide.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/092statusRightSide.jpg)
Here's a YouTube demonstration video showing it pulling
SIXTY FIVE CARS! YAY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_isynQ_h8D4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_isynQ_h8D4)
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Max, you and Ron Bearden shoudl get medals for your fastidious documentation! Nice! :D
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Max,
that is one awesome locomotive you created. You sir a truly an artist.
Carl
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Thanks, guys!
And Peteski, to be honest, I do this for three reasons:
1. Sometimes, after going through a big project like this, I have looked back and thought, "DARN! I could have made a magazine
article out of that!"... but I didn't document and take photos, so I didn't have bupkis to write from. So now, I photograph
everything so I have photos in case I want to use them
2. More than once, when doing a repair or kitbash project, I have come across some part or repair that I know I've
done before, only I couldn't remember how I did it! And since I got on the stick and made sure I photographed every
darn repair, again, more than once, I've been able to go back and look at my own photos to refresh my memory.
3. Somehow, even though there is no obligation to "support" a forum, I feel that this is a way I can contribute to Railwire.
I get a lot out of this forum in terms of modeling expertise and information, so this is my way of putting my ante into the pot.
If even one person looks at what I have done, either here or in a magazine article, and is able to build and engine or fix something,
that's a mighty good feeling.
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Max, I love these "installments", can't help but find myself grinning :D
Beautiful work!
Keep 'em comin'!
Best Otto K.
-
Max, this is really superb work.
It is so helpful to see and read what and how you do these things.
Thanks for sharing!
Kindest regards
Gary
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Max, new guy here. It was your W5 and the SP&S steam build you did earlier that prompted me to finally sign up to The Railwire. Keep 'em coming.
Mark C.
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Thanks, Max, for your ante. :ashat:
It's a good bet that I will Never build a W-5, but there was a few techniques and tools that you use that have encouraged me to attack some of the
problems I was having on a DL&W M-1 "Lackawanna" project that has moved on and off my work bench for some time now.
It's back on now!
Oh and I enjoyed the music while watching the video.
Greg O.
mrns.org
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Another work of art!
Max I just love how you turn even a kit-building project into a sculpture project.
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Another work of art!
Max I just love how you turn even a kit-building project into a sculpture project.
Thank you VERY much, Cody (and everyone).
Important point about what Cody said, however:
As I go along on this project, I am doing a lot of things that are not strictly "necessary" to build this thing just
as the kit, and you will still get a really nice engine if you do it that way. For example:
- shaving off the sanding lines, and making the working Z micro coupler in the pilot are certainly not essentials and the
engine would look great anyway.
- Soldering the pewter metal could be tricky, but you could build the whole thing with 2-part epoxy and will still work.
- Right now, for example, I am working on the pipe hangers that go along the walkways to hold all the cooling lines.
The W-5 parts includea set of pre-made etched brass cooling lines that can be glued on as one-piece assemblies,
which is certainly far easier than attaching tiny pipe hangers and running .008" wire through them. But alas,
those etched parts will yield flat cooling lines, where as the separate hangers with round wire would look better,
so I'm going to go to the extra trouble to do that.
The point is, I really want people to especially take note of all the nice ready-made parts that are in the W-5
parts set, and realize that you can make this engine strictly by using those parts and following my photos as a guide.
Sure, I'm pushing myself to add scratchbuilt "niceties", but that isn't strictly necessary to have success with this.
When this is all said and done, if you decide you want to build a W-5, don't let all the scratchbuilding dissuade you
when I take a vote of how many people are really interested in building one of these.
-
Yes it is good stuff like this that would get me to buy an N scale magazine. Most articles would say "and then I glued on the pump" where you go into detail about how you built a jig to line it up, tacked it with Goo, drilled and pinned it, then set it with epoxy. Little stuff like that is what I love to read.
You and Ron could have a race to see who can include the most details :D Not details on the model, but details on how to build the model!
-
Yes it is good stuff like this that would get me to buy an N scale magazine. Most articles would say "and then I glued on the pump" where you go into detail about how you built a jig to line it up, tacked it with Goo, drilled and pinned it, then set it with epoxy. Little stuff like that is what I love to read.
You and Ron could have a race to see who can include the most details :D Not details on the model, but details on how to build the model!
Except that if you watch how I work on a project (and I believe we can all say this of Ron as well), it is never a
"race." ;)
All kidding aside, I appreciate your sentiments, Chris.
[tangent]
One of the things that I so love about Railroad Model Craftsman magazine is that they have always been one of the few (probably the only) magazines that are willing to devote the page and photo space to a complex building project that is really required to
express it in detail. I sincerely hope they don't lose that characteristic in their newly revived form.
[/end_tangent]
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NSR would give you the photo and copy space over multiple issues for such a project.
-
Hi everyone.
Here now, the next installment. This is a large one with a lot of photos.
In this segment, I cover all the piping on the left and right sides of the engine.
The front/pilot area will come later.
This has been a grueling few weeks. Quite a few of these pipes took 2 or 3 hours' work to make and install one single pipe.
It is simply a matter of measure, bend, test, rebend, fix, ... and then sometimes, break, cut, throw-out, and make again.
There are simply a ton of pipes on this particular version of a Northern Pacific W-5. (But I'm mighty excited looking
at it when they are all on there!)
And as always, the cooling line assemblies do come as single units on an etched fret in the W-5 kit. You do not have to make
your own cooling lines by hand the way I am showing here.
The rest of the piping can be made from various sizes of wire, or omitted as you choose.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/100holdPipeHangersToSolder.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/101holdPipeHangersToSolder.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/102solderedPipeHanger.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/103bendingBoilerLines.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/104bendingBoilerLines.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/105handrail.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/106coolingLineBegin.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/107coolingLine.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/108prototypeLineCompare.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/109rightMainElescoPipes.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/110rightMainElescoPipeUnderside.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/111PowerReverse.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/112rightRearCoolingLine.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/113rightSidePiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/114rightSidePipingvsPrototype.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/115leftFrontPipingArray.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/116leftFrontPipingArray.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/117leftFrontPipingArray.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/118leftFrontPipingArray.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/119leftSideRailingAndSandLines.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/120leftSidePipingBelowCab.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/121leftSidePipingBelowCab.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/122ElescoValve.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/123LeftSideElescoPipe.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/124leftFrontPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/125leftFrontPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/126rightSideMidPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/127leftMidPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/128leftCabTwoPipeHangers.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/129leftCabPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/130leftCabPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/131leftCabPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/132boilerTopRightThing.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/133boilerTopRightThingAndExtraSandDomeLines.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/134replacementPowerReverseRod.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/135upperRightApplianceAndPiping.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/136rightSidePipingSummary.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/137leftSidePipingSummary.jpg)
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Beautiful 8)
Any ideas what those lines are that come off the sand dome?
-
WOW! Holly crap! Amazing!
(http://myhrpartnerinc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/shocked-smiley-resized-600.png)
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Phenomenal work Max... the detailing is incredible! Wow, just wow!
-
Max, truly amazing, thanks for sharing and documenting this for the rest of us.
It's the small details and scale size piping that give N scale steam a sense of mass and proportion otherwise lacking and give the model "life"! I'm drooling here...wow!
I'm also learning. This build illustrates how a variety of materials, each with its own qualities and challenges, can be used together optimally to make a piece of art like this. Pewter boiler, resin tender, variety of piping materials. Solder, epoxy, ACC. Whatever works best in a given application?..
About your piping, would you mind explaining your thinking when to use brass vs. phosphor bronze? And do you find the phosphor bronze tough enough? I'm thinking particularly of the raised .008 handrails above the cylinders....
Can't wait for the next installment of "Taking it to the Max"!
Regards, Otto K.
-
Thanks, guys! I do admit, I just did this thing with my head down, one foot in front of the other, but when they were all on there
and I took the photos at the end I thought, "Hey, this thing is starting to really look like a steam engine now."
Chris, I have no idea what those little extra raised lines are to the sand dome. My philosophy is, I study the prototype photos,
and photos of large-scale brass versions of the engine, and if I can see a line, I put it on. I don't even know what half of the
lines are or exactly where they go. I am just trying to model what you can see.
Otto:
Those front handrails on the walkways are always going to be trouble. I broke their joints more than once while working on this, and if I had it to do over, I would wait until the end to do those. Even when soldering the joints, the fact is that pewter is soft, so a soldered joint isn't as robust as it would be on a brass-to-brass joint. The pewter can easily bend at the joint, so if you bend it a few times, the pewter fatigues and lets the solder go. But it is still a lot more durable than glue, or even epoxy.
I will just have to be careful. Ideally, those front handrails would be Delrin, so they would be super-flexible, and would just bend when leaned on, and would spring right back, without stressing the glue attachments. But I don't really have any such thing as .008" or .010" inch Delrin "rod".
As for why I choose brass vs phosphor bronze, here's how I decide.
For most piping that is close to the boiler, and especially for heavier lines or lines with a lot of bends, I use brass because
it is easier to bend and form, and have it stay put. It isn't springy like phosphor bronze, so it doesn't fight you as much.
It is soft.
But for piping that is going to be hanging out in free air more, brass isn't a good choice because if you bump it or squeeze it,
it will bend out of shape and it won't spring back. Hence, the handrails and the cooling lines are phosphor bronze because they
have to be flexible, yet spring back into position if you handle them or press on them accidentally. Those tiny lines Chris referred to
at the sand domes are phosphor bronze because they arch up off the boiler a little.
Sometimes I choose purely based on the convenience of the sizes the material comes in. Those lines that run under the cab through
the hangers, below the firebox, would be better if they were phosphor bronze because they are hanging "out there". But I could
get sizes I liked better in brass. They are a little heavier, they do have 3 supports over a short distance, and they are in a spot where I am not likely to wreck them, so even though they are brass, I'm not too worried.
The guitar string pipes are by far the hardest to work with. They are hard to bend and you have to fight with that wound layer on them, but they have "the look", so I put up with it. I find that I can touch the ends of them with a Dremel disk and it will fling off the wound layer, leaving just the thin core wire at the tip, which can then be more easily be inserted into a small hole for mounting.
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Looks awesome Max!
-
You take each model to a new level Max! Outstanding. I was feeling you pain with each new added wire....
-
Thanks for the explanation Max....makes sense.
Looking forward to more....
Otto
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Max,
Your techniques are straight forward and very helpful... not to mention impressive and inspiring! :D
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Max,
Very nice work and tutorial, thanks for the sharing. Do you treat the PB and brass wire with anything before painting them ? As far as that goes, is it necessary to treat the pewter ?
Carl
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Drool :)
Damn impressive Max.
-
Thank you, one and all. I wish to stress that your compliments, and constructive criticism are
always helpful, and always an honor. Boy oh boy, I just love building steam locomotives. :)
Carl, When I have painted brass or pewter engines in the past, I just soaked and gently brushed them with
warm soapy water, maybe some vinegar, and then rinsed with water and let it dry for a day or so.
It's always worked for me, so that's what I'll do with this one.
Air brushing will be done with Floquil or Scalecoat solvent based paints. I won't be baking it in an oven, even if I decide
to use Scalecoat, because of the epoxies and occasional bits of ACC here and there. Most likely, I will be using
Floquil Engine Black and Floquil Weathered Black in some mixture. It will be tricky brushing Neolube onto the smokebox with all
those pipes. I am expecting that I will do it, and then touch up any faux pas on the piping with a small brush and a little
of the airbrush paint mixture, held out with no thinner for that purpose.
When that's all done, I brush a little glosscote where the cab numbering and lettering have to go, decal, and then the whole
thing gets some overspray of Dullcote.
But we're a long way from there. I have about 10 items on my engine "work list" yet, and there is still the tender to do.
-
And now, the final "push"...
This installment will finish all the piping and boiler details, the tender, and take the project all the way to being ready to
paint. I'm starting to get excited now!
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/138drillBoilerBracketHoles.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/139solderWireToBoilerBracket.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/140installBeamSupports.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/141bendCouplerLiftLevers.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/142hangersOnLiftLever.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/143liftLeverInstalled.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/144compressorSupports.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/145cabShadeBrass.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/146cabShadesAndGrabsInstalled.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/147boilerLaggingClampsBellRoofHatches.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/148boilerLaggingClampsCloseup.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/149tenderInitialCastings.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/150tenderBackupLightHole.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/151ledSolder.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/152ledTest.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/153ledInstall.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/154ledGlue.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/155ledBoard.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/156ledTest.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/157ledTenderWiring.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/158tenderSideframes.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/159tenderAirTankAndSteps.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/160bendGrabs.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/161installGrabs.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/162tenderFrontCornerGrabs.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/163tenderDoghouseGrabs.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/164tenderConduit1.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/165tenderConduit2.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/166tenderConduit3.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/167tenderConduit4.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/168tenderConduit5.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/169finalBeforePaint1.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/170finalBeforePaint2.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/171finalBeforePaint3.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/172finalBeforePaint4.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/173finalBeforePaint5.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/174finalBeforePaint6.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/175paintingDowelHangle.jpg)
Next time... I hope to have it painted, and do the final details like the bell rope and cab glass and curtains.
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Max, she's beautiful, I am speechless, again.
.006 wire, are you kidding?? Looking at the photo, it's difficult to realize just how tiny some of these parts are.
You've outdone yourself, and that's saying a lot!
In awe here, Otto K.
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STUNNING...AMAZING...just INCREDIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!
I've been watching this build since the beginning; and am just blown away by the workmanship and attention to detail! Truly a gem!
~Bruce
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mmagliaro
Do you know where I can get decals for a Pacific steam loco for the Northern Pacific Alton route?
There is one supplier on line that I have tried to get them from twice and twice no response. He took the money twice and twice Pay Pal has had to refund it.
Rick
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Max, thanks for the next installment of this wonderful projects. Couple of comments about the rear headlight: First, I would be afraid that at some point in time the bare LED soldering pads/wire will contact the metal casing and create a short across the LED. I know - highly unlikely, but still possible. On my projects I usually coat the exposed electrical metal areas with CA or epoxy. Since your LED is already installed, maybe dropping some epoxy into the headlight cavity would solidly affix the LED above the metal casting, assuring that it will never short out.
Since you are running DC power I like to also warn you about not protecting the white LED from exceeding its reverse voltage. These LEDs are very delicate and often their max. reverse voltage is 5V. Running in DC, the track voltage will possibly be up to 12 V, then there are also voltage spikes from the motor windings when the locomotive momentarily loses contact with the track. Those can be much higher than 12V.
That is why in many factory-installed white-LED headlights the forward and reverse LEDs are wired together , parallel in reverse with a single resistor. That way, regardless of the polarity, one LED will be lit (with about 3V across it). That voltage clamping action protect the other LED from exceeding the reverse voltage. In your case you could either wire up a standard silicone small signal diode (like 1N4148) in series with the circuit, or hook it up reversed in parallel with the LED. That way it will clamp the reverse voltage applied to the white LED to about 0.7V. The last thing you want to do is to replace a blown LED on a finished model. Protecting it with a diode is a very cheap insurance. :)
The other comment is about the resistor. You have obviously have graduated to being comfortable with SMT technology and you even use PC board strips to hold the components. Yet, you still use leaded resistors. There is no need for that. Using SMD resistors (either 1206 or 0805 size) makes for so much neater and easier installation on the PC board. The leaded resistor seems awkward and bulky (even though I know how small 1/8 W resistors are). SMD resistors are pennies each so there is no good excuse not to start using them. :)
(http://i1068.photobucket.com/albums/u449/peteski7/Railwire/E77Hdlights_01_zps5e9d6cc3.jpg)
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One of these photos needs to be a screen saver, but I can't pick just one! :P
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Thanks all!
That .006" wire is brass "pipe" from Detail Associates. I have never been able to find another source quite like it.
It is simply drawn brass wire like any other, but good luck actually finding it that small in a convenient package.
So I hunt down the packages of DA. I know, it's mighty darn small. But in N Scale, .006" is still about a 1" pipe.
So it is probably still oversized for fine things like that electrical conduit up to the taillight. I would bet that is
a 1/2" pipe. But the important thing is that it's smaller than the handrails, grabirons, and other pipes, so at
least there is a sense of proportion - i.e. it is smaller than the surrounding pipes.
Peteski: Yes, I could use SMD resistors. But I'm doing this project with my eye on two things - my own engine,
and also somewhat of a build tutorial for the GHQ W-5 kit, which Gregg Scott may still release if there is enough
interest. I'm trying to make things as general purpose and simple as I can. Not everybody is going to want to solder
SMD components (which includes that tiny LED in the taillight). They may end up using a larger LED inside the
tender and a piece of fiber optic tubing. Heck, I even considered that myself. So yes, SMD stuff is small and neat.
But I've got a lot of room up inside that tender, so I used it to keep this simple.
As for the LED shorting against the housing, I did include a shim of .005" styrene against one side
of the LED so that the magnet wire and the LED pad cannot touch the housing on that side. I didn't show it in a photo,
but I thought I mentioned it in the captions somewhere.
TANKS for reminding me about the reverse protection diode. I need to get that in there!
Funny I forgot that. In the #626, I reverse-wired a Schottky diode across the SMD LED. Those are nice because they
have such a fast switching time. But I somehow just forgot about it here.
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mmagliaro
Do you know where I can get decals for a Pacific steam loco for the Northern Pacific Alton route?
There is one supplier on line that I have tried to get them from twice and twice no response. He took the money twice and twice Pay Pal has had to refund it.
Rick
I thought "Alton Route" was GM&O. That's my total extent of knowledge about it. I can't help with decals, sorry.
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Hi Max, Your modeling just amazes me! I really appreciate the way you present it here on the web in tutorial mode.
It looks even better up close and personal. Thanks for sharing.
Rick
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Thanks for the really good tips on forming wire Max. Very clear photos and text.
Oh yeah - The steam loco build is pretty good too. ;)
Not really. It's an AWESOME piece of work! Thanks for taking the time to document the process too.
Looking forward to seeing the finished product.
Steve
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Really awesome Max.
Here is a thought. In the one shot you can really see in the cab!!! Go back and grab the interior cab details from the Mikado and install them.
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Really awesome Max.
Here is a thought. In the one shot you can really see in the cab!!! Go back and grab the interior cab details from the Mikado and install them.
The Kato backhead casting does not fit. I tried that when I started out with the build. It is too chunky. Too deep, too thick.
The other thing to remember is that I have not put glass into the windows, or an engineer figure in the window, which I
plan to do. I am also going to put cloth cab curtains down the side, rear, edges. All of that, and black paint, will
mask that interior quite a bit.
Having said all that... just yesterday as I was preparing it for painting, I did think that I could make my own backhead and get it in there.
Unlike the Kato one, I can form a thin sheet of styrene and then build up the stoker pipes and basic piping and valve details on it,
and pop it in there. So I'm going to take a whack at it. The OMI O Scale brass engine on brasstrains.com has some really good interior
close photos of the backhead, so I can just copy that. (Good luck finding a close-up photo of an actual NP W-5 backhead... if anyone
knows of such a thing...)
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Peteski: Yes, I could use SMD resistors. But I'm doing this project with my eye on two things - my own engine,
and also somewhat of a build tutorial for the GHQ W-5 kit, which Gregg Scott may still release if there is enough
interest. I'm trying to make things as general purpose and simple as I can. Not everybody is going to want to solder
SMD components (which includes that tiny LED in the taillight). They may end up using a larger LED inside the
tender and a piece of fiber optic tubing. Heck, I even considered that myself. So yes, SMD stuff is small and neat.
But I've got a lot of room up inside that tender, so I used it to keep this simple.
As for the LED shorting against the housing, I did include a shim of .005" styrene against one side
of the LED so that the magnet wire and the LED pad cannot touch the housing on that side. I didn't show it in a photo,
but I thought I mentioned it in the captions somewhere.
TANKS for reminding me about the reverse protection diode. I need to get that in there!
Funny I forgot that. In the #626, I reverse-wired a Schottky diode across the SMD LED. Those are nice because they
have such a fast switching time. But I somehow just forgot about it here.
You're welcome - the last thing I like to do is to replace a burned out LED on some super-detailed model where the LED is permanently installed. :D
As far as the SMD resistors go, IMO they are actually much easier to solder to a flat piece of PC board than dealing with a 1/8 W leaded resistor. But that's me. :)
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To clarify — the resistors and reverse-direction diodes are only necessary for non-decoder-equipped equipment, correct? If a decoder was installed, then the micro LED could be soldered directly to the respective pads on the decoder board?
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To clarify — the resistors and reverse-direction diodes are only necessary for non-decoder-equipped equipment, correct? If a decoder was installed, then the micro LED could be soldered directly to the respective pads on the decoder board?
Well.... Correct that there is no need for reverse-voltage protection diode. The decoder circuitry itself already does that for you.
As far as the resistors go, that depends on the decoder. Some have built-in resistors, many do not. Also often (with white LEDs), the built-in resistor has a value which makes the LED appear too bright. Often an additional series-resistor is needed to bring the brightness down to an acceptable level.
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Well.... Correct that there is no need for reverse-voltage protection diode. The decoder circuitry itself already does that for you.
As far as the resistors go, that depends on the decoder. Some have built-in resistors, many do not. Also often (with white LEDs), the built-in resistor has a value which makes the LED appear too bright. Often an additional series-resistor is needed to bring the brightness down to an acceptable level.
Understood.
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I run resistors on ALL of my LED installs, DCC or DC, because all it takes is a mistake in the CV's and you'll fry that LED. it is not only piece of mind, but I feel it helps with getting the right brightness and color.
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I run resistors on ALL of my LED installs, DCC or DC, because all it takes is a mistake in the CV's and you'll fry that LED. it is not only piece of mind, but I feel it helps with getting the right brightness and color.
How do CV values affect the operation of the LEDs with decoder-built-in or external resistors? Whether there is a built-in resistors on a decoder or not is not affected by any CV values - it is a hardwired piece of hardware.
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How do CV values affect the operation of the LEDs with decoder-built-in or external resistors? Whether there is a built-in resistors on a decoder or not is not affected by any CV values - it is a hardwired piece of hardware.
I'm 90% sure their is a CV value in the decoders I use that dictates how many volts the lighting gets. I know I have accidentally reset a decoder before, and had them fry LEDs as soon as I put them back on the track. I could be wrong and it could have been a defective decoder. Regardless, I still use resistors with LEDs, Insurance.
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I'm 90% sure their is a CV value in the decoders I use that dictates how many volts the lighting gets. I know I have accidentally reset a decoder before, and had them fry LEDs as soon as I put them back on the track. I could be wrong and it could have been a defective decoder. Regardless, I still use resistors with LEDs, Insurance.
Do you have any specific examples or model numbers of the decoders? I never heard of such a thing. The closest I can think of is when some (usually H0) decoders from certain manufacturers can provide either full 12V or a 1.5V voltage on the positive blue wire of the decoders. That is done so that the small 1.5V micro light bulbs some modelers still use can be hooked up directly to the decoder (without using a series resistor). But 1.5V would not even light up an LED.
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we are straying a ways from a loco build here.
Peteski,
I believe you can find Digitraxx decoder manuals on-line.
I recall reading the 'voltage' comment in one of their manuals.
More important to me is that I doubted it was a voltage control.
my guess is variable duty square and that I was not going to trust it to keep the setting.
I decided 'voltage' was used as a easy word to skip
the more complicated and more accurate description.
victor
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we are straying a ways from a loco build here.
Oh well. It happens here in TRW. You should see how far from the original build topic we strayed in Ron's Milwaukee Electric build. ;) How about designing TrueType fonts and making decals on Alps printers? :D
Peteski,
I believe you can find Digitraxx decoder manuals on-line.
RTFM, eh? Very helpful hint Victor - thanks!
I recall reading the 'voltage' comment in one of their manuals.
More important to me is that I doubted it was a voltage control.
my guess is variable duty square and that I was not going to trust it to keep the setting.
I decided 'voltage' was used as a easy word to skip
the more complicated and more accurate description.
victor
From how I understand that this info is for the Digitrax FX lighting (strobes, beacons, etc.) - not for powering low-voltage headlights. Nowhere in the manual they imply that low voltage bulbs or LEDs can be utilized directly. That is why I'm curious as to what decoder has a low-voltage function feature.
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Hi Peteski,
believe me I only mentioned the on-line manuals because I thought it easier.
I have a handful of decoder manuals (a folded stapled photocopy thing?)
for various decoders....
how can I easily share them with you?
For what ever I read, the manual would have been from a number of years ago.
I would not be surprised if that specification changed for the reasons
we have been kicking around.
victor
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Thanks Victor.
I have no problem reading online manuals. It is just that I have been playing with Digitrax decoders from the old DN93 (in the mid 90s) to the current versions of DZ126 and I have never encountered any CV setting mentioned in the Digitrax Mobile Decoder Manual which would allow for adjusting the function outputs for direct wired LEDs or low-voltage bulbs.
If you do have a hard-copy manual which mentions such functionality, I would like to see it. Maybe you can scan it or take a digital photo of the page?
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Thanks Victor.
I have no problem reading online manuals. It is just that I have been playing with Digitrax decoders from the old DN93 (in the mid 90s) to the current versions of DZ126 and I have never encountered any CV setting mentioned in the Digitrax Mobile Decoder Manual which would allow for adjusting the function outputs for direct wired LEDs or low-voltage bulbs.
If you do have a hard-copy manual which mentions such functionality, I would like to see it. Maybe you can scan it or take a digital photo of the page?
It's in the "new" Decoder Manual V2 (http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/Decoder_Manual_V2-01_2014.pdf) from Jan 2014 - page 51 So it's only available on the new Series 6 decoders.
8.7.3 CV61 Values: Transponding & Lighting Algorithm
You can set up whether transponding is enabled or disabled and which lighting algorithm you use in CV61 as shown in the following table. The factory default is 00, transponding off and LED algorithm selected.
| CV 61 Value | Transponding | LED or Lamp |
| 00 | Off | LED |
| 01 | Off | Lamp |
| 02 | On | LED |
| 03 | On | Lamp |
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It's in the "new" Decoder Manual V2 (http://www.digitrax.com/static/apps/cms/media/documents/documentation/Decoder_Manual_V2-01_2014.pdf) from Jan 2014 - page 51 So it's only available on the new Series 6 decoders.
| CV 61 Value | Transponding | LED or Lamp |
| 00 | Off | LED |
| 01 | Off | Lamp |
| 02 | On | LED |
| 03 | On | Lamp |
John,
that is apples and oranges. Digitrax finally came into the LED age with Series6 decoders. The finally make them LED FX-friendly. But that is just a setting which makes the effect realistic with LEDs. The function outputs which drive the LEDs still need resistors (they still have full output voltage). Before Series 6 decoders, no matter how you adjusted the FX CVs, they would give poor simulation of the effects which dim the light when using LEDs.
We were discussing some CV setting which would put the decoder in some mode which would allow the direct connect of LEDs to the function outputs. I never seen such functionality
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We were discussing some CV setting which would put the decoder in some mode which would allow the direct connect of LEDs to the function outputs. I never seen such functionality
Okay, I misunderstood the context. AFAIK you are correct. There is nothing to enable/disable current limiting resistors on the various function outputs. They either have them or they don't. IIRC, some of the Digitrax PnP decoders have pads for extra functions and some of them may or may not have the resistors, but you have to read the specific manuals or talk to Digitrax Customer Service (or make an educated guess based on circuit paths) to find out which.
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Hi everybody.
This installment includes painting, the backhead, and final exterior weathering and detailing.
It's finally done!
First, here's a shot of the initial airbrush job on the loco and tender bodies:
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/176airbrushed.jpg)
Now, the backhead
Thanks to alert reader Jason (superturbine), I did note that there was indeed enough room to model a backhead in this engine.
The original Kato Mikado backhead part was too thick and bulky to fit. So I decided to just make one, and model
the cab curtains rolled up and open so it would show. I copied as much backhead detail as I could
from photos of a brass O Scale W-5.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/177backheadBaseSheet.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/178backheadDetails.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/179backheadPainted.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/180backheadInstalled.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/181paintingAndSillStripes.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/182smokeboxPainting.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/183paintsAndFinishes.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/184cabCurtainCloth.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/185cabCurtainWrap.jpg)
It is also a good idea to mash the curtain "rolls" at this point with some tweezers or needlenose pliers so that they
don't stay perfectly round.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/186cabCurtainThreads.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/x187cabCurtainInstall.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/x188formTenderLadder.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/189installTenderLadder.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/190coalBunkerFiller.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/191coalBunkerFiller.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/x192tinyNumbers.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/193tinyNumbers.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/x194cabWindows.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/195headlightDecals.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/196headlightDecals.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/x197bellRope.jpg)
And that's it! The following is a set of photos of the finished model.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/198finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/199finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/200finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/201finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/202finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/203finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/204finished.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/205finished.jpg)
My most sincere thanks to everyone on Railwire who encouraged me and shared
in this project. :)
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Breathtaking!
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Really awesome work! Thanks for sharing as I know how hard it is to take photos while building a model. Makes me want to try my hand at steam.
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Max,
That is absolutely awesome, you sir, a a true for real artist.
Carl
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Awesome, Awesome, Awesome!!!
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Beautiful work! I'm hoping Greg makes this into a kit. The W-5 is one steam engine I would love to have for some retro shots on the Skally Line.
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Thank you guys!
I really do love how it turned out. I didn't weather it heavily, because it was just too darn pretty. So we can
pretend it was recently shopped and washed.
Andrew, your work on Greg's W-5 years ago was really the thing that put this project into my head as something I wanted to do.
Now I just have to patch up that little pinhole in the boiler on the fireman's side above the Elesco pump. Ha! Ha!
I was somehow blind to that until I saw it in the photo. Luckily, it will not be hard to patch up.
...
It is probably time to take some sort of "head count" of how many people seriously would buy this kit if Greg made it available.
Remember, as it currently stands, you would have to buy the W-3 kit, PLUS this W-5 kit, plus have a Kato Mikado to build it on.
You can just post in here and we'll take a count after a few days. And although it may be a useless request, I would ask
that people not say, "Yeah, put me down for one" unless they would really, truly write the check today if the kit were available.
These surveys for product interest are always grossly inflated.
As for pricing, I have no idea. (Remember, I do not represent GHQ.)
But since the W-3 is about $100, we can guess that you can expect to pay at least that for
the W-5, so you're looking at at least $200 + the Mikado.
Oh! And one final thing I have really been remiss in saying.
THANK YOU, Greg Scott, for making the parts available to me so I could do this project and photo essay.
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Absolutely- OUTSTANDING!!
Thanks,
Wolf
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Holy ***** Max, that is amazingly beautiful.
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Nice work, Max.
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Looks pretty good to me.
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My gosh Max, that's essentially a work of art! To think that's N Scale is unbelievable, excellent job! I always enjoy these threads!
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Great work as always Max. A real stunner.
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Outstanding model Max!
I do have couple of observations. Since we are on TRW, I hope that it is ok.
Couple of things jumped out at me in those photos showing the enlarged model. I realize that these things will probably not show up when the model is viewed directly, but since you are showing those photos now (and maybe showing similar photos in a possible magazine article), these items will be readily visible to all anal people like me. :)
What I'm talking about are the large (relatively speaking) holes which are left open. One example is the grab iron on the sand dome, the other is the rear tender ladder. Both items sit in holes which are left unfilled. Tiny amount of CA glue then paint touch-up would have hidden those holes. Or if the grab iron and ladder were installed before painting and the holes filled at that time, that would have worked too.
This is a superb model (in both construction and in finish) - that is why those holes just jumped out at me.
I also have a question. The smokebox color looks very bright. Did the prototype (if I can use that word :tommann: ) have a brightly colored smokebox, or is the lighting in the photograph making it look brighter than it really is?
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Outstanding model Max!
I do have couple of observations. Since we are on TRW, I hope that it is ok.
Couple of things jumped out at me in those photos showing the enlarged model. I realize that these things will probably not show up when the model is viewed directly, but since you are showing those photos now (and maybe showing similar photos in a possible magazine article), these items will be readily visible to all anal people like me. :)
What I'm talking about are the large (relatively speaking) holes which are left open. One example is the grab iron on the sand dome, the other is the rear tender ladder. Both items sit in holes which are left unfilled. Tiny amount of CA glue then paint touch-up would have hidden those holes. Or if the grab iron and ladder were installed before painting and the holes filled at that time, that would have worked too.
This is a superb model (in both construction and in finish) - that is why those holes just jumped out at me.
I also have a question. The smokebox color looks very bright. Did the prototype (if I can use that word :tommann: ) have a brightly colored smokebox, or is the lighting in the photograph making it look brighter than it really is?
Not to worry about criticisms, Peteski. It wouldn't be Railwire without them!
You are right about the holes. When I glued the grabs into them, I rather thought I had enough glue in there to
fill them up, but will go touch those up. I have to fill in that weird pinhole flaw in the boiler on the fireman's side
right above the Elesco pump anyway. The smokebox color was pretty bright when these engines were clean,
I think.
As I neared completion on this one,
I definitely decided to go more for my "Lionel Inner Child" - hence the clean white pinstriping and the red cab windows.
It was such a pretty engine, I didn't want to dirty it down too much. I did use some Dullcote and weathering powders
to "calm it down" and blend everything together, but I like the bright smokebox.
In this case, that's just Neolube, but I have the lighting up pretty bright in these photos as you can see,
so I can get the body details to show up well. That does overemphasize the silver tone of the smokebox.
When I get that body hole and the others touched up, I'll post a photo with a little less light and you'll see what it really looks like.
If I were scratchbuilding this engine, one thing I would definitely do is make all the running boards out of thin brass strip.
The GHQ pewter is soft and it's almost impossible to get a thin, uniform, non-wavy edge on it. An improvement would be
to just shave and file those things off, and glue on brass strip walkways.
It does look pretty good regardless, and I was trying to "build the kit" as much as possible.
The white stripe decals along the edges really help a LOT. It's amazing how that thing straight white line, with the black
engine paint under it on the walkway edge, create the illusion of a nice crisp edge that is not really all that crisp and thin
at all. I first tried it by just painting the walkway edges, and it looked horrible because the pewter thickness
varies too much and it's just too darn wavy. Trying to really straighten it out is like trying to straighten out a slippery
trout (impossible).
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As we toil at our craft to the best of our ability, on rare occasion an individual with perseverance, knowledge and skill transcends the craft to create a work of art. Max has done that, here.
Max, if there is a hall of fame for N scale modelers, you get my vote. You are my inspiration.
Jim Hale
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That's it, pack it in, Max Won N scale, it's over, the End.
:drool: :drool:
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Oh my God... will you guys STOP. :facepalm:
Above all else, please PLEASE believe me when I say I never consider this to be a competition.
I appreciate the compliments. They are very heartwarming, and thank you.
(and the criticisms as well... the glue in the holes is drying as we speak ;) )
And if anyone knows of a good way to make an N Scale Alco builder's plate, I am all ears.
I found some on-line, and photoshopped them to have the correct builder's number, shop,
and date on it. But it is only a scale 14" x 7", so no way can I print text that small with any clarity.
I don't think anyone makes builder's plate decals.
It has to look like this, and be 14" wide by 7" high
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/misc/alcoBuildersPlate.jpg)
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Max
another really excellent piece of work
wow!
fantastic
thanks for sharing your process and progress
it really provides incentive for new kit bashers like me
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Yea, amazing! Thank you :o
Otto K.
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Awesome work Max! I am looking forward too seeing it up close and personal. Thanks for the great visual narrative.
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Great build max.
I can shrink cast the builders plate.
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Max, that is simply amazing!
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Absolutely beautiful job Max. And to think you took the time to document the process as well. Thank you.
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Thank you, sincerely. If it were possible to express how appreciation from your peers feels... oh my.
By the way, photographing and documenting does take a lot of time. But I think it ends up helping
me. I see flaws in macro photos that I might not notice, so the model comes out better. And I also
have these things to refer to on later projects when I wonder, "How did I do that again?"
Jason,
Do you really think you can shrink cast a builders plate? That thing in N Scale is only .0875" wide, and the raised letters,
yikes, they are as small as the tiniest lettering on a Microscale decal sheet. I would have to find you a large one
with all the relief in the letters, right? I know Precision Scale and some other companies make these for
HO and O Scale. I will see if I can find one that is close, and then alter the date and engine number with tiny
bits of styrene or something so you'd have something to cast. This really sounds like a promising idea.
Thank you for the offer!
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No doubt, you will be able to read all the letters and numbers..... "With a magnifying glass"
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I could print the builders plate decal in black/gold on Alps. Easier and faster than shrink casting. :D I helped Ron Bearden out, I can help you too. ;)
But I think that at 600 dpi some of the smaller lettering might not be legible. I could try and see.
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Speechless!....
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RE: the builders plate...does it really need to be fully legible? It just needs to look like a builders plate, right?
It's kind of like a trust plate. You know it's there and what it represents even if you can't necessarily read it.
It just completes the illusion.
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Why make it an illusion if it doesn't have to be.
I think it's good to push the envelope!
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How thick is the real plate? 1/4" maybe? That is 0.0016" thick in N scale. Can you cast something that thin, or will it be way out of scale, just like the gaps between simulated boards on the Rapido meat reefer? :trollface: :P ;)
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It would be cool if it actually had relief. Etched brass would be fabulous, but even there, I don't know if you
could really etch out all that lettering at this tiny size.
I do agree that having an unreadable plate that just "looks right" is
better than none at all. So I put one on. See below...
This photo, I think, captures the color and tone of the smokebox a little better. I tried to shift the lighting so I
could light up the side and undercarriage without blasting the smokebox.
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/251_fillboilerHolesBuildersPlate.jpg)
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Excellent Max!
BTW, I was serious - it you like I could print a builders plate decal for you.
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Excellent Max!
BTW, I was serious - it you like I could print a builders plate decal for you.
Thanks, Peteski! If you want to give it a go, please do. If you can get it at least somewhat legible, it will be better than
what I have and I would gladly use it. You can scrape the photo right out of this forum. It will have way over 1200 dpi
when it is shrunk down to a scale 14" x 7" (I think if you change it to 3300 dpi or 6600, it will be about perfect. I can't remember).
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Thanks, Peteski! If you want to give it a go, please do. If you can get it at least somewhat legible, it will be better than
what I have and I would gladly use it. You can scrape the photo right out of this forum. It will have way over 1200 dpi
when it is shrunk down to a scale 14" x 7" (I think if you change it to 3300 dpi or 6600, it will be about perfect. I can't remember).
I've been doing some work on this. So the plate will be 0.0875" X 0.0438". The resolution of the image you posted earlier is about 7200 dpi for that size. But it takes a bit more than just resizing the bitmap. I re-sampled it to 2400 dpi (way more than I need for the 600 dpi printout), then converted it to lineart (black/white) image and now I will have to create the black and gold artwork. Basically the gold will be inverted version of the black. I'll PM you when I need your address.
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Thanks Peteski. Yes, those are the correct dimensions.
I just noted that the Microscale NYC steam decal sheet includes some Alco builder plates of this type.
Looking at my sheet of those, I must say, they are downright unreadable even under heavy magnification, except for
the big "A" in "American". I'm not sure this size of lettering could ever be printed on any decal or etched part.
You can still try if you want, and I welcome it, but I think we're chasing a pipe dream with this.
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I have n scale plates that are legible. Find and HO or O scale plate that will work and I will make it happen.
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What an outstanding engine build and tutorial.
I am completely blown away.
The white stripes on the running boards are very nice details. On quite a few photos the engines are so dirty that it is impossible to tell if there are white stripes, but they add a "classic" look.
I guess I need to enhance one or two of my W3s... :-)
If you are already counting: I would be very interested in a W5 kit. I already got a spare Kato Mike and one more W3 kit.
But if I could choose I would prefer Gregg to do the Class A Northern kit... :-)
Cheers
Dirk
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(http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b334/mmagliaro/NP%20Steam%20Models/NP%20W-5%202-8-2/251_fillboilerHolesBuildersPlate.jpg)
Max, quite simply put, this is a museum quality work of art. You have taken super-detailing steam in n scale to a level that only you can achieve (at least that I have seen). It has been a sheer pleasure following this thread and witnessing your genius.
Thank you for sharing your work.
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Thank you, John. I am touched by your statement.
Here are some "on the layout" shots. Yes, I do actually run it!
(In the interest of full disclosure, the headlight is photoshopped...)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/312_IMG_7948.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/311_IMG_7947.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/310_IMG_7942.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/304W5.jpg)
(http://www.maxcowonline.com/photohost/npw5/303W5crossing2.jpg)
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Holy mother of moo moo that thing is gorgeous! Putting it on the layout just completes the picture.
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Honestly, that is spectacular.
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That's really a fantastic looking locomotive ! But I just gotta ask, would you consider building another one to sell ???? :D
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That's really a fantastic looking locomotive ! But I just gotta ask, would you consider building another one to sell ???? :D
You are not the first one to ask me that question (well, you are the first to ask on THIS engine, but
not in general).
The simple answer is "no", but it's not because I'm a hateful selfish ogre who wants to keep them all
to myself.
It's because of the huge number of hours and the associate cost that would mean for a customer.
As you can see, I am very VERY slow at building these things.
Looking back over this thread, it took me some 6 months
to finish this engine. And I spent time on it practically every single day. It easily averages
2 hours/day, every day, especially when I consider that I have a lot of late-night and weekend marathons where I really put
in serious hours.
6 mos = about 180 days x 2 hrs = 360 hours.
Even if I charged only $10/hour, that's $3600. Yikes. I can't imagine anybody wanting
to spend money like that on an engine.
In short, the sheer number of hours it takes me to build these things would make it so outrageously expensive
for anyone to pay for the work that I long ago gave up the idea of making them for hire.
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Never mind the fact that $10/hr. is close to minimum wage for unskilled labor. Without question, Max belongs to the extremely skilled camp...
Otto K.
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Never mind the fact that $10/hr. is close to minimum wage for unskilled labor. Without question, Max belongs to the extremely skilled camp...
Otto K.
Well, yeah. I was going to get around to that. :) But it's clear that even at only $10, the price is out
of the question.
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Otto - for sure he is in the very highly skilled camp. That ,highly skilled, concept is becoming quite rare in today's world.
All I can say, as I am in awe, is that Max's work is priceless.
Carl
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That is exactly why earlier I referred to the model as a Museum quality piece. In reality, that locomotive is priceless, much like Max's time. So much heart and soul (not just time) went into this locomotive, plus the time and energy to document it no less.
Sooo, when does this thread have the elite honor of being moved to the "Best of the Best of Railwire' thread?
Hmmmm? :ashat:
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Hey , no problem Max . I totally understand . I've always said It never hurts to ask , soooo. Again, Fantastic model !....Mike
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Jeez...just imagine what Max could do in,say,S or O scale!
Quite remarkable.
Mark in Oregon
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Max, I know what you mean. I get about one inquiry a month for my scratchbuilt Class B Climax. Only partially in jest, I say for what I went through with that thing, if anything happens to me, just stick it in my shirt pocket, I'm taking that one with me. Who knows, maybe the ancient Egyptians were right and you get to take all that stuff with you.
That's just a beautiful, beautiful piece of work you did. That's the equal of anything I've ever seen in any scale, let alone N.
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I wish I could absorb your mana. Excellent work.