TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: OldEastRR on March 16, 2014, 10:51:09 PM
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I want to acquire or paint a small batch of Fruit Grower Express reefers (any types) that would be in service circa 1953-54. I have info on car types and build dates but not enough on paint schemes. I've got info that says the car sides are chrome yellow, are reefer yellow; the roofs were boxcar red, were white; the ends were boxcar red; the door hardware was painted black, was painted yellow; and the stripes down the sides --- well, I'm not really sure when or how they were applied, as I have 1954 pictures and 1966 MR drawings with stripes and 1958 pics of 40 footers both plug and swing-door without stripes. And the lettering style ... sheeesh.
So which is it?
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In case you've not seen it.
http://borhs.org/ModelerMag/BO_Modeler_4_2008_JanFeb_addendum.pdf
edit: Use Bryan's link below, it's much faster.
Should be something of value in there.
Jason
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Also this:
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/fgexwoodencars.pdf
And procure this specific InterMountain model, which is an accurate scale replica of the FGE prototype both in model design and deco (other than it rides too high):
#67701 FGE serviced 4/54. Been issued 4 times, 6 road numbers each for a total of 24 cars. Later releases are missing the side tackboards.
You won't have to paint/deco at all if your acquire these.
It's also possible to kitbash a number of the other FGE-specific plug door prototypes from the 1950s, from InterMountain, Micro-Trains and Con-Cor components.
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Also this:
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/fgexwoodencars.pdf
That's the exact same thing. ;) But it downloads much faster from your link. It's gone form the Keystone Modeler site. I'm glad the other two have kept it available.
Jason
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Also don't ignore Part 2 of this coverage that deals with the 40' steel cars and the railroads that leased them. I had wondered for a long time if FGE had done the 40' cars as they did with most of the 50', leasing them to various roads. Its in the 3rd quarter 2013 issue of The Keystone Modeler (http://www.prrths.com/newprr_files/newPRRKeystoneModeler.htm), starting on page 75.
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OK, thanks, that link pretty much covers all the wood reefers and some of the steel, but where do I find out about the 40 plug door RBs? And the 50 foot mech reefers (that were built in 53-54)? And still have no idea when and on what the double stripes along the side lettering was. Atlas or MTL produced a 40' plug not long ago that HAD the stripes.
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Its in the 3rd quarter 2013 issue of The Keystone Modeler, starting on page 75.
I tried to correct the link and apparently it didn't take. The correct ezine is the Seaboard - Coast Line Modeler, 3rd Quarter, page 75. The article is entitled Atlas 40’ Insulated Box Car, by Paul Faulk, and it provides a good overview of the 40' Plug Door Insulated cars...
http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclm21.pdf (http://s-clmodeler.aclsal.org/currentissue/sclm21.pdf)
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OK, thanks, that link pretty much covers all the wood reefers and some of the steel, but where do I find out about the 40 plug door RBs? And the 50 foot mech reefers (that were built in 53-54)? And still have no idea when and on what the double stripes along the side lettering was. Atlas or MTL produced a 40' plug not long ago that HAD the stripes.
Find one of the MTL #69020 mechanical reefers decorated for FGE, as the tooled model is an accurate representation of the FGE prototype and the deco scheme is accurate as well. They were released as a shrink-wrapped six-pack way back in 1989, but they aren't too difficult to acquire on the secondary market. Build date is 3/56, service date is 10/61. Additionally, the 69000-body can be used along with InterMountain ice reefer parts to kitbash the FHIX series of FGE 40' plug door ice reefers.
(http://www.bbussey.net/ns/p/rFHIX41034.jpg)
See the SCLM article Jerry referenced regarding the 40' RB boxcars. One can be kitbashed similar to the ice reefer above using the sides of a Con-Cor plug door ice reefer body and the roof/ends/floor from an InterMountain 40' boxcar. I don't remember which style IMRC boxcar at the moment, but reviewing the SCLM article will make it clear which roof/ends are required.
The horizontal stripes were part of the paint scheme used in the late 1960s and early 1970s. If you're modeling the 1950s, you should avoid the horizontal stripes schemes.
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Ok, this is getting very confusing ... no stripes till late '60s? There is a picture on p. 92 of the May '94 RMC from "Post-war Refrigerator Car History - Pt. 2" showing brand-new ACF-built FGE RBNX 81195, an RB, built in April 1955, with stripes. The page before that shows another 1955 RB with stripes and an "RB/DF" markings.
The same article lists FGE 50' mech reefers by Frigidaire -- #s 205,209-45, 340-399 -- in service on April 1953... are the MTL 50-footers based on this prototype?
To complicate things even more. the plan drawing of an "RBNX insulated boxcar" on p. 47 of the Jan '66 MR shows an FGE reefer that is an exact version of the ConCor plug-door 40-ft ice reefer if you removed the roof hatches -- roof, ends, everything except the right number of riveted side seams. With stripes. So what's that all about?
Like they say, everybody can't be right!
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Ok, this is getting very confusing ... no stripes till late '60s? There is a picture on p. 92 of the May '94 RMC from "Post-war Refrigerator Car History - Pt. 2" showing brand-new ACF-built FGE RBNX 81195, an RB, built in April 1955, with stripes. The page before that shows another 1955 RB with stripes and an "RB/DF" markings.
Is it a later photo of a repainted car? The Blt date wouldn't change with the repaint, but the shop date should.
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... The same article lists FGE 50' mech reefers by Frigidaire -- #s 205,209-45, 340-399 -- in service on April 1953... are the MTL 50-footers based on this prototype? ...
To complicate things even more. the plan drawing of an "RBNX insulated boxcar" on p. 47 of the Jan '66 MR shows an FGE reefer that is an exact version of the ConCor plug-door 40-ft ice reefer if you removed the roof hatches -- roof, ends, everything except the right number of rivet seams ...
No, that isn't the prototype the MTL car is based on. You'll have to check based on the car series reporting marks. I don't remember the series currently, but an eBay surf will yield that information.
The article in SCL-M provides the correct information on the RB prototype. The roof and ends of the Con-Cor model are not correct as they are generic features used on all of those Kato-tooled boxcar models for Con-Cor in the 1970s. I consider 1966 as late 1960s.
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Is it a later photo of a repainted car? The Blt date wouldn't change with the repaint, but the shop date should.
Here's a shot showing a similar car.
(http://searcharchives.vancouver.ca/uploads/r/null/9/2/925892/74dee080-224a-4da2-8645-7d591016678a-A28770.jpg)
The shop date is "NEW 12-52", as is the car next to it.
Jason
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Nice! I didn't know the stripes were that early either.
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Interesting. It could be that the boxcars had stripes and the reefers didn't.
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Interesting. It could be that the boxcars had stripes and the reefers didn't.
It very easily could be part of the 'Insulated' paint scheme.
These cars may be the first use of RBNX under FGE. The site I checked for my other thread says July-54 which obviously isn't true (and why I'm looking for verification on the Hormel car). I wish I had a Jan-53 ORER. I'd like to know what (if any) other insulated cars they had at that time.
Jason
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It very easily could be part of the 'Insulated' paint scheme.
These cars may be the first use of RBNX under FGE. The site I checked for my other thread says July-54 which obviously isn't true (and why I'm looking for verification on the Hormel car). I wish I had a Jan-53 ORER. I'd like to know what (if any) other insulated cars they had at that time.
Jason
Jason,
The January 1953 ORER shows series R.B.N.X. 80000 - 80999 as a new addition with the number of cars blank - not surprizing with a 12-52 built date as the data would have been submitted to the publisher well in advance of the publication date. The cars are listed as AAR Mech Designation RB, described as "Refrigerator, All Steel". Inside length 40-0, Inside width 9-0, Inside height 9-1, Outside length 42-2 3/4, Width at Eaves 9-11, Height to Eaves 13-11 1/8, Height to top of running board 14-9 5/16, Doors 8-0 W X 8-9 5/16 H, CAPY 100000, CUFT 3270.
The only other AAR "RB" cars I see are: FCEX 4200 - 4349 (single car, actual # not specified), FCEX 4800 - 4849 (single car, # not specified), and FCEX 4850 - 4899 (shown as a series with no cars). FGEX cars numbered under FGEX 399 are AAR Mech Desig 'RP'. All other FGEX cars are Mech Desig 'RS'. Reporting marks used are: FGEX, FCEX, FDEX, FHIX, FOBX and RBNX.
Cheers,
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Wow. Still no clarity. I know there are dozens and dozens of books on the PFE, every car they had, every color picture of every car they had, all the cars that were re-painted, times, dates, delivery schedules, weights etc etc etc... But did anybody ever do a picture/data book on FGE?
Talk about favoratism.
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Talk about favoratism.
It's all Kato's fault! :trollface:
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Wow. Still no clarity. I know there are dozens and dozens of books on the PFE, every car they had, every color picture of every car they had, all the cars that were re-painted, times, dates, delivery schedules, weights etc etc etc... But did anybody ever do a picture/data book on FGE?
Talk about favoratism.
It truly isn't hard to get the FGE information, as they didn't have nearly as many schemes as PFE. FGE certainly has been covered in assorted literature. Here's a partial list off the top of my head:
- Refrigerator Color Guide by Morning Sun
- The Great Yellow Fleet, don't remember the publisher
- The aforementioned 81-page FGE Addendum published by the PRR, B&O and SCL historical societies
- The aforementioned SCL Modeler #21 PDF
I know that I've easily found everything I needed to replicate the cars I wanted. The second easiest option is to paint/decal your models based on photographs of specific prototypes from the specific time-period you model, and there are plenty of FGE photos from the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. In addition, there are two models that are accurate representations of FGE prototypes that have been released in accurate FGE schemes from the time period you model and one of them currently is in stock with multiple road numbers, so the easiest option is to simply buy those. It isn't difficult to assemble a fleet of prototypical FGE equipment in N scale.
What more do you need? There is total clarity in these publications regarding the 1950s schemes ... but if you need more, you're going to have to do some research. Besides, as a New Haven modeler, you should be used to having to do some Google'ing and additional digging to find information. :cool:
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- The Great Yellow Fleet, don't remember the publisher
http://www.amazon.com/The-Great-Yellow-Fleet-Refrigerator/dp/0870950916
Publisher: Golden West Books; First Edition edition (December 1986)
ISBN-13: 978-0870950919
Googled that for ya. :trollface:
Seriously though, thanks for the info. Over in my area, the Buffalo Line was't as big of a FGE pipeline (as far as I can tell) but I was still seriously lacking in knowledge.
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Bottom line is, nobody here knows when FGE started putting stripes on their RB 40 footers, or when the lettering changed. Or why, in a that picture in the Lynch book dated 1958, there are rows of both steel reefers and RBs with NO striping.
Well, good. Then I can letter my cars however I want and nobody can prove I'm wrong. Making lemonade out of lemons....
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If your modeling FGE, you're also modeling WFE and BREX and you'll need to get the car fleet ratios correct.
Consider what I have on my Keystone Crossings web site from a PRR perspective...
http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/modeling/203-reefers-in-freight-service (http://pennsyrr.com/index.php/modeling/203-reefers-in-freight-service)
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Bottom line is, nobody here knows when FGE started putting stripes on their RB 40 footers, or when the lettering changed. Or why, in a that picture in the Lynch book dated 1958, there are rows of both steel reefers and RBs with NO striping.
What are the road numbers on the RB cars?
Jason
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Since the WFEX cars have been mentioned, I looked in my (very limited) sources. All of the 50 ft insulated cars from the early-mid 50s until the modern "Big Sky Blue" style lettering have stripes. None of the reefers, mechanical or ice, have them. As the schemes appear to be almost identical to the FGE cars, Bryan may be right, and the stripes were limited to the insulated boxcars. Maybe this was a way of distinguishing the reefers and boxcars for those who didn't know, or didn't have time to read, the car codes?
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Bottom line is, nobody here knows when FGE started putting stripes on their RB 40 footers, or when the lettering changed. Or why, in a that picture in the Lynch book dated 1958, there are rows of both steel reefers and RBs with NO striping.
Well, good. Then I can letter my cars however I want and nobody can prove I'm wrong. Making lemonade out of lemons....
Aside from the fact that it's your model railroad and you can do whatever you want ... I fail to understand why you can't simply use the plethora of existing photos from your modeling era as a reference. I don't see the reason for your dilemma or the continuing point of this discussion. Duplicate what you see in the period-correct photos and your problem is solved.