TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: PAL_Houston on March 14, 2014, 07:55:14 PM
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The immediate reason for this poll is the thread about wheel sizes. In the era I model it really was not a question: 36-inch for passenger and 33-inch for freight. But there has been a lot of discussion making me wonder about how many folks model much more modern eras.
Please forgive the choice of dates: it is necessarily a bit imprecise, but intent was to span approx 20-years periods since 1940.
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1966 - 1969 for me.
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October, 1971 for me.
Hmm... yesterday for
me...
(http://bayouline.com/o2.gif)
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80's on up; I like shortlines with hand-me-down power, and big modern freights
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80's on up; I like shortlines with hand-me-down power, and big modern freights
Modern short lines for me also. Although my freelance short line has not returned to profitability yet, it's more like a money pit! :D
Steve Dodge in California and Nevada
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1943 to 1955
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1987-89. Prime time for CN and CP in Ontario.
But, 1978ish is also of interest.
As is 1998ish.
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Modern-ish. Late 70s through today, ignoring any real world developments I don't like, like the proliferation of graffiti; wide nosed diesels; and the end of Conrail. Sort of a time stand still/mash up with the local turn being powered by a decrepit GP9 that should have been retired decades ago.
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Around 2011-present. Fluid to follow developments that I want to model.
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September 1952 (with a few historical inaccuracies to satisfy personal whims!)
Cheers,
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1954-55.
There was a similar poll recently over on Trainboard. Transition era just edged modern era. I would guess this site has more modelers of the modern era.
I wonder if the transition era losing its dominance is common across scales, or peculiar to N.
Jim
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Trying to make believe that I am modelling the Milwaukee in the mid-70s (well just before bad decisions started coming out). Unfortunately, I have no Little Joes, so I am following that build thread quite closely.
Always need more SD40-2s and GP40s, because Lines West loved those, but not sure how I explain the Dash 9s :| .
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August of 1948, potato season on the NS
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1992-94, with a bit of history shift to fit what I want in the era I chose.
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Summer 1956
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1954-55.
There was a similar poll recently over on Trainboard. Transition era just edged modern era. I would guess this site has more modelers of the modern era.
I wonder if the transition era losing its dominance is common across scales, or peculiar to N.
Jim
The urge to model the transition era looses its steam after the last fart is blown out the breezer .
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1995-2005; unless I see a neat diesel then all bets are off.
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1983-86 with only a few anachronisms.
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I waffle... Pennsy in the mid 50's and modern day on the WNY&P/NS. With a smattering of C&O around WWII. :facepalm:
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Spring/Summer of 1983
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The urge to model the transition era looses its steam after the last fart is blown out the breezer .
Poetry. :D
Jim
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Tough question to answer. The layout is from 1975 to the early 80's. I've the freight cars on hand to get me to 1999. Thinking of branching out to modern day Wheeling and Lake Erie. I need more toys!
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Adding rivets to the space time continuum is not my idea of fun.
Anytime between 1940 and 2000 will do me fine.
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Counting rivets in the space-time continuum is the epitome of fun for me. :trollface: 1947 through December 31, 1956...UP between Ogden and Wahsatch.
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No option for future? I'm modelling the near future. That way if anyone says something isn't to prototype I can simply say: "Yet"
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Late 40's PRR but I sorta run what I have, duplex steam, sharnoses, F & E units etc, but always CK, no shadow keystone :D
Angus
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1937 D&RGW, 1983 CNW, & 1994 CNW
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Well, I really don't care about wheel size, but I model 1969... or thereabouts. Give or take a few minutes north or south of July 14th.
But I suspect I'll be running Burlington Northern green and Amtrak equipment, along with GN, CBQ, SPS, and Milwaukee, until the various manufacturers produce enough Northern Pacific stuff to fill a layout. I have the money, but it seems the manufacturers don't want it.
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Summer of this year. But it may get hard to keep up, given the way things change these days.
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Just autumn, no specific date... :D
Thomas
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Every layout I've built has had a different temporal setting. Currently I have three in the works: winter 1940s, fall 1980s and summer 1950s.
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Not sure i model any era I like all steam and if I see a newer loco I like it shows up on my layout.Mostly UP in steam and CN in diesel .
Rick
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1953-1967 or classic CB&Q passenger and diesel era. I do have a sprinkle of BN engines hiding on the layout because that is what I grew up train watching. I also have an amtrak superliner and Metra bilevel set because my boys see these when we train watch.
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1950 supposedly. Will probably get stretched to 1946-1952. But prewar is interesting too, late '30s lots of big steam...
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Two periods for me, 1990's Wisconsin Central (though starting to stretch into the CN years), and 1964 to 1973 Norfolk and Western.
Cheers,
Kev
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Two periods for me also, summer 1970 and fall 1952. I selected "The Tough Years" for the poll.
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I was actually quite surprised that the steam-diesel transition era still holds the majority here in Railwire.
It always seems like this forum leans more toward later era modeling.
Anyway, 1951 for me, which lets me keep running some of the older prewar steam and passenger equipment,
stick to smaller, older road cars and trucks, and 40' rolling stock. But I happily cheat so I can run
Loewy -styled North Coast Limited cars with matching F7's, but that's as modern as I go.
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I model between 1930 and 1956. I mostly try to stick to the late 30s till the end of WWII.
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Primarily the Late 1970's, Kind of the last glory days of the Maine Central before Guilford. But I also have a good bit of the late 1950's before passenger service ended. And I can do a couple trains of early 2000's Guilford.
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I intend to model the PRR in the late summer of 1930. BLI decision to release the M1s with only post war modifactions has made me explore the possibility of 1946 or 1947. I am also a modern Amtrak fan.
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CPR summer 1958 Field to Golden. Maximum passenger options; The Canadian in its prime and the Mountaineer still ran as separate train in summer.
Geoff
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I LOVE the mid to late 70's coal haulers however I am modeling more modern era at this time leaning heavily towards CSAO.
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I model roughly 1999-2003 BNSF, so I chose modern.
I may eventually push out to 2007 to model early swoosh, especially if Atlas does Gensets in N. That would also expand my coal gon fleet and allow me to run some ACe's, including one or two of the UP heritage units.
But for now I'm holding steady with a focus around 2001.
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I model 1978-1980 which in my opinion is best do to equipment variety and road name abundance making for very interesting trains.
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The layout is based on 1947-50, the time frame that the Cincinnatian ran through the town I lev in and am modeling. My son also keeps a train of modern equipment (within the last couple years) of the short line that now operates on the same line. We also run N-trak so I'm open to anything that catches my eye but most of my equipment is geared toward the 47-50 era.
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I model around 64 - 65 still 1st generation and BLW and FM & LH around. Start of 2nd generation starting to take over. Cabooses on all trains and plenty and right before a lot of the large mergers.
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1956-1959
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Primarily '80s vintage B&M, MEC, Guilford. My layout is modeled in a generic New England fashion, so I can even run older iron, and just a change out vehicles so it looks appropriate.
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Well, here in Italy is 1949-1953 on Espee rails in the peninsula (California). Spring season is the best period for me.
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I say toward the Modern era. I like the newer locomotives out on the market, SD70ace and es44.
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1939 to 1956. PRR, central part of the state.
Jim Hale
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Summer 1996 regardless of Ed's efforts to get me to do the 1980s,
Phil
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Guilford Rail System 1984-1986. Plenty of color on the rails.
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"Modern" (Return to profitability) (2000 - present)
Ahem, Conrail was profitable in the mid 80s... just the time I model, actually.
(well, when I'm not being suckered in by Reading, PC and Conrail in the broke a$$ 70s).
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It looks like the transition era is slowly pulling ahead in popularity, what we expect; maybe the HO's here woke up and started voting.
N scale is the logical choice for contemporary modelling as the large equipment with multiple lash ups and long trains is more easily dealt with in restricted spaces. Two SD90's in HO eats up a lot of track, much less in N, a longer 12 foot train in N looks more realistic than a 12 foot train in HO with long equipment. The negative for contemporary modellers in N is that manufactures copy HO and release much more transition era structures than modern buildings.
I think for the hobby to succeed there will ultimately be a shift to modern contemporary RRing. Kids today who by the way ride many more passenger trains than kids did in the past, even though the rides may be shorter trips on trains such as Seattle's Sounder and Vancouver's West Coast Express, will be more interested in modelling what they see now rather than being obsessed with steam. I'm not saying they won't like steam, it won't be in their consciousness; just like I had to teach my son how to use a rotary phone and I won't repeat what he said after he used one....lol..
I'm trying to slowly cobble together a contemporary city which sort of resembles structures in Seattle and Vancouver, two newer cities without many older structures you are likely to see in the East; doing this is not that easy. I'm trying to get something roughly looking like Rod's Stewart's cities scene on a much smaller scale, and I have to tell you the pickings are thin for structures.
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Summer 1996 regardless of Ed's efforts to get me to do the 1980s,
Phil
Lol. Eventually you'll come to your senses.
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Western Maryland - 1972.
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Great Northern in 1956 or 1957.
For the N Ttrak club I have a Montana Rail Link train in the early 1990s.
Tom
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It looks like the transition era is slowly pulling ahead in popularity, what we expect; maybe the HO's here woke up and started voting.
Who let those :ashat: out of their cages?
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1978-1982
Once upon the time I did only SCL (however that :scared:- stripping - I got only 3 units done so far) but whatsoever it includes now SP, RI, CR, KCS, IHB, ATSF, AA and CCT as well -the late 70's just rock 8)
Stephan
who just finished an IHB NW7, has to ad handrails to an ex RDG C630, and, oh, yes, is painting some 40' IM and MT cars for FCP - with ACI, wheel-dots and lube-plates which made that time so facinating.
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I model the fall of 2015, at this rate is about when I'll break ground on the layout.. :|
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I think for the hobby to succeed there will ultimately be a shift to modern contemporary RRing. Kids today who by the way ride many more passenger trains than kids did in the past, even though the rides may be shorter trips on trains such as Seattle's Sounder and Vancouver's West Coast Express, will be more interested in modelling what they see now rather than being obsessed with steam. I'm not saying they won't like steam, it won't be in their consciousness; just like I had to teach my son how to use a rotary phone and I won't repeat what he said after he used one....lol..
I think you're right about the model what you know idea but those kids are a ways off from buying houses to have layouts. I think that the prototypes clamp down on access will have an impact to, too many youth not being able to get up close and personal with the trains to catch the bug as easily. I'm the early adapter market the manufacturers should be looking at. And I was roaming the WM yards in western MD while BL2s and slugs were still the yard goats, and 4 axle lash-ups in rainbow colors snaked along the OML and that's what I'll model (though I wised up and am now focused out west but same time period). So the market should/will still focus on the early adapters with spending money; and a majority of them were coming of age with N scale in the 70s, so you'll have more modelers with spending power focusing on the 60s, 70s, and early 80s for some time.
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I think the disconnect may actually improve the popularity for transition era. If you have the train gene, and don't have personal experience with any one style of railroading, then you pick what looks interesting. I know a lot of transition era modelers that were born 30 years after the last revenue steam loco pulled a train. They have no direct experience with steam yet are drawn to it. I'm 45 and the closest thing to mainline steam I have ever experienced was a ride behind the Chessie Steam Special when I was 9 yet I could care less about modern railroading. I really don't believe the old "you model what you grow up with" axiom.
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Personally, I have to laugh at the "you model what you know" argument. I was born decades after steam. My only experience with them is in videos and excursion trains. I also model a railroad that ceased to exist many years before I was born. I model a vision of what I wish I could have experienced. There's a mistique to railroading that existed in the late steam era that people like me (who only know fatheads and homogenous hood units) can only imagine. The models take us there.
This is a personal perception with a sample size of 1. YMMV
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I'll pile on against the apparent logic of "you model what you know." I was born in '62, and I model '54. Simply put, I find the transition era is just a much more interesting time in railroading than anything that's happened since. Inter-city passenger service may have been waning, but there was still plenty of passenger activity. And a majority of the nation's goods still moved by rail, making for more interesting and varied traffic. (I just can't get excited about watching 100 covered hoppers slide by.)
And, of course, steam engines just look cool.
I'm not knocking anyone for modeling a different period. Whatever floats your boat. But I don't think the attraction to steam (or the transition era) is going to pass anytime soon.
That being said, I'm still surprised the transition era is such a favorite of TRW visitors. I had assumed this was mostly a modern crowd. I guess the modern guys are just more vocal. :trollface:
Jim
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My grandfather was an engineer in Jasper Alberta, taking the Super Continental to Edison and back in one day, and the next day off. I would stay with my grandparents while my father was away in the military, which was a lot. So in theory, I should be modelling Jasper roughly in 1957 (I got to see the first ditch lights ever there, being tried out experimentally). My uncle was also an engineer in Jasper initially then transferred to Edmonton after he almost died in a train slide down a canyon, decided he want to go where the land was flat. But I don't model Jasper in 1957, instead I model a fictitious CN subdivision which is contemporary.
But logically we are what we eat and so what is familiar, for most, will be modelled and steam remained latter in Canada. A buddy of mine, a retired service manager for CN out of the Thorton Yards (Vancouver), told me there was a short line here that was the first in North America to go from diesels back to steam, now I never knew that.
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I like to say I model from 78-86ish, all the roads in Wisconsin. I loved those days,,,one day might see a SOO gp30,, then the next you could see exhaust plume from the GB&W Alcos and that would make you forget what you were doing,, cept you felt a force driving you to chase the Alcos,, man, those were the days.
I remember chasing the SOO from Shops yard to Duplainville junction. Also memories of Green St in Bensenville,,, where you could walk right up to the units and take all the pictures you wanted. So I choose those years, they are the best of times, spent with the best of friends. I miss those days. I bet we all do.
Wyatt
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:| Whatever I feel like modeling at a given point in time. September 15,1862 seems interesting right now. Hey no just kidding. As a Baby Boomer who got to see the very end of steam I guess that era (time frame) is what interests the most I could model my birth date May 15,1946,but I have not, and as can be seen in photos of my layout I have an eclectic mix of rolling stock although the TE (transition era) is what is represented out there permanently on the layout used for Op Sessions. If the Lunar Railroad was a reality and a fascinating operation they I just might model the future. Remember the really dumb "Super Train" TV show. Ok nuff said, I did vote for transition only because there was no category for turn of the century thru 1920's. Nate Goodman (Nato).
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Ok nuff said, I did vote for transition only because there was no category for turn of the century thru 1920's. Nate Goodman (Nato).
Isn't that what the Pre-war (Pre 1942) categories covers?
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I can't really do "model what you know" because all the local trains had gone before I was born (1987) and the not quite local ones were infrequent and had a big orange G on the side. So I'm going with the Boston & Maine in 1950.
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I model 1881- 1890 which means I scratch build most of my rolling stock. Thank goodness for the Atlas 4-4-0!
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I model modern NS because that's what I like, but I do have some steam engines and first generation diesels just to diversify myself. I choose to model modern NS because that is what I grew up seeing, I was born in '92 and grew up near the ex NYC Chicago Line in northern IN so it only seems natural that I have an interest in NS.
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I model 1881- 1890 which means I scratch build most of my rolling stock. Thank goodness for the Atlas 4-4-0!
Paul:
Let me be the first to welcome you to Railwire!
Not many people scratch-build most of their rolling stock!
I hope you will share some of your work with the rest of us going forward.
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I'm 45 and the closest thing to mainline steam I have ever experienced was a ride behind the Chessie Steam Special when I was 9 yet I could care less about modern railroading. I really don't believe the old "you model what you grow up with" axiom.
Yea, I'm 48 and I caught the bug by standing too close trackside to the Chessie Steam Special and almost getting sucked under. Well, it felt like it at least. Don't get me wrong, I do like steam. The GN had beautiful steamers that I want to model for the hell of it and I am seriously contemplating a door layout set around WWI on the Washington/Canadian border. But I still think what we grew up with is like comfort food and what many are drawn to.
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Being born in 1940, I grew up with steam. My father was a freight conductor with Santa Fe for 42 years and when they began switching from steam to diesel, it was as if I was holding him personally responsible for such a "terrible mistake". As such I model AT&SF/BNSF. We lived in Bakersfield so there was also a heavy Southern Pacific element. So I have a couple "Black Widow" S.P. units (GP-7 & RS-11). I model the agriculture areas around Bakersfield. It can range from 1950 to 1995 by just changing the vehicles, freight cars and locomotives.....at least it's close enough for me. Many of the existing old packing sheds at Edison date back to the 40s/50s.
However, no steam. Power ranges from Zebra Striped GP-7s, V-1000s, SD-24s and GP-30s on up to modern BNSF
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I model the mid-1950's. The transition-era gives me the greatest variety of equipment and color schemes, plus the bonus of big flashy American cars for the roads. But I also have equipment from 1980's and 1990's that I occasionally operate just for grins.
I'm trying to get something roughly looking like Rod's Stewart's cities scene on a much smaller scale, and I have to tell you the pickings are thin for structures.
A number of Rod Stewart's city structures are scratchbuilt. Anyone modeling a major metropolitan scene will have to do a little home-brew here and there.
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And I'm warming up my home brew scratch building skills. Now if Rod Stewart would only take my calls. I'm sure you read the last issue with Stewart discussing techniques and some of his structures are build with MDF, must weigh a ton.
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I'm obviously bored. For giggles, I combined the results of this poll with the recent one on Trainboard. The era divisions were a little different, but this is how it comes out:
Pre World War II 18 (5.1%)
1940-60 (approximately) 124 (35.1%)
1960-80 87 (24.6%)
1980 to present 124 (35.1%)
Kinda shatters the illusion of the transition era being the dominant choice. Only about a third of respondents chose it.
I think I posed this questoin upthread, but got no responses, so here it is again: Is this departure from the transition era peculiar to N scale, or common across all scales?
Jim
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I'm not so sure it shatters anything. First of all, both polls were different, and neither statistically signficant. But, throw that out...they're still data and we'll use it. I just think you're probably getting a lot of HO responses as well.
And I'm not sure the transition era has ever had a "stronghold" on n-scale. (or modern either, for that matter) I think there aren't enough good steam locos in N to make it as attractive as transition era HO. If anything, it's been late transition era in N probably, at least until some of the recent better steam locos have hit the shelves.
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...I just think you're probably getting a lot of HO responses as well.
Got ANY evidence for that statement whatsoever??
Just askin'... :trollface:
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I'm not so sure it shatters anything. First of all, both polls were different, and neither statistically signficant. But, throw that out...they're still data and we'll use it. I just think you're probably getting a lot of HO responses as well.
And I'm not sure the transition era has ever had a "stronghold" on n-scale. (or modern either, for that matter) I think there aren't enough good steam locos in N to make it as attractive as transition era HO. If anything, it's been late transition era in N probably, at least until some of the recent better steam locos have hit the shelves.
The polls were different, as I mentioned, but not by so much to skew the results greatly. And I wouldn't call 335 responses statistically insignificant. Most national surveys only poll 500 to 1000 people. In addition, doing a "poll of polls" has proven to provide accurate insight into political races, for instance.
Now, there was certainly some crossover, with people voting in both polls. And the RW poll allowed two votes, so that probably injected some noise. (On the other hand, it seems like a fair amount of people are equipping themselves for two eras.) So, scientific it's not.
Still, I don't think it unreasonable to draw some inferences from the polls. I'm merely surprised that only about a third of the respondents were interested in the transition era. I would have guessed closer to 50%.
I think you do have a valid point though about the relative lack of quality steamers in N until recently. Hopefully that trend of new releases will continue.
(I model the transition era, and if I ever switch it will be to the '20s or '30s.)
Jim
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Mid 1950s for the larger pike.
I do have a small nineteenth century pike, as well. It is on a two-by-four foot piece of plywood. I operate any nineteenth century equipment on it. I do not fuss too much about narrow time periods in the nineteenth century. What I want out of it is for someone to look at that pike and know that is set in the nineteenth century. Most of the structures are wood, there is a livery stable/smith shop, a firehouse with horse-drawn equipment, a Wells Fargo Waggon (with an 1880s Wells Fargo logo). Most of the rolling stock is wood. That, and colorful locomotives (although there are some plain black or Russian Iron) all spell 'nineteenth century'.
GF likes nineteenth century trains, as well.
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Got ANY evidence for that statement whatsoever??
The same amount of evidence that everyone else has that is making inferences about the data.
There IS evidence of HO voting on the Trainboard poll.
Anyway, I'm not sure my point made it across correctly... I was skeptical of the statement "kinda shatters the illusion of the transition era being the dominant choice." On one hand, yes I'm saying that I'm not sure that the number of transition-era modelers is "dominant", but I'm also saying there's very well may be more transition modelers since the sample size is so small. I could concede that transition-era modelers might possibly be the *majority*, but not be a number that anyone would classify as dominant.
And if we really look in the mirror here, what about the N-trak guys that run SD70ACe's pulling a string of stock cars and a Happy Birthday caboose. Which one did they pick? We are constantly "reminded" by hobby shop proprietors and some industry guys that MOST (and I've heard up to 90% even) don't give a flip about what era even means. But like anything, they'll weirdly/randomly still pitch their tent in one camp for whatever reason. So, there's that.
In my mind, (based on polls I've seen over the years) the number of transition-era modelers and "modern" modelers *in n-scale* is pretty close. Some people say post-'80 as modern, some say post-70, etc. So depending on the split-out, one or the other probably edges the other. If you'll notice the Trainboard poll had "Post-2000" as modern and I think that now that's probably where the term needs to sit, and with 70's-90's being some new term (Deregulation-era?) It would be nice if there was a common, fairly specific breakout so these polls and discussions were on even footing. Seems a lot of folks bend the era's to fit their desires and then things get harder to compare. As to which has the edge, I know a lot of new modelers are "modern", and the modelers I know locally generally model post-'65ish....not "modern" by any means (although there are a few of us) but far from transition-era. And I'll say again, I think that has a LOT more to do with available equipment in n-scale than any popularity contest. I just expect that many transition guys are more prone to stick to HO, especially those running small steam.
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Just a note to Jim, statistically speaking you are correct in saying a certain number of respondents is larger than a national poll, but that doesn't equate to accuracy. As any statistic freak knows, getting the right blend of respondents to reflect the population you are discussing is an art in itself. So 300, 500 or a 1000 doesn't mean much unless it is the "right" 300, 500, or a 1000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination)
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From the articles and photo's that appear on this site , especially concerning passenger car projects that the majority of members here are transition era modelers.
I model the CMStP&P and the CNS&M (and connecting roads) during the early Korean war.
Randy
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P&WV 1963.
P&LE 1976 through 1980
Conrail 1980
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Autumn, late 1950s and early 1980s.
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Just a note to Jim, statistically speaking you are correct in saying a certain number of respondents is larger than a national poll, but that doesn't equate to accuracy. As any statistic freak knows, getting the right blend of respondents to reflect the population you are discussing is an art in itself. So 300, 500 or a 1000 doesn't mean much unless it is the "right" 300, 500, or a 1000.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size_determination)
Of course. But the respondents were all model railroaders, so that makes 'em the right ones. :trollface:
Jim