TheRailwire
General Discussion => Layout Engineering Reports => Topic started by: DKS on January 04, 2014, 07:33:23 AM
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The namesake for the Hoboken Manufacturers Railroad is the Hoboken Shore Railroad (http://hbs.railfan.net/), a shortline serving the industries and ports along the waterfront in Hoboken. The model railroad is a variation on my Jersey City Industrial Railroad (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=27762.msg319679#msg319679), and came about in similar fashion: I'd done a track plan for a Railwire member that was never used, but I liked it enough that I finally decided to do something about it--especially now as the JCIR is in storage, I didn't want to unpack it all, and yet find myself in need of doing some modeling while I slog through the terminally slow process of getting construction started on my new home.
Once I embarked on the HMR, the fate of the JCIR has changed. Since both layouts are very similar settings, I've elected to abandon the dual-era scheme for the JCIR, as well as the season. Instead, the HMR will be 1930s in the winter, and the JCIR will be 1980s in the summer. There are many factors that led to these changes. First, the HMR will be built using Unitrack, chosen for several reasons: it will allow me to complete the trackwork quickly; the results will be highly reliable; and it's easier on my hands, which are succumbing to arthritis at an increasing rate. But of course there is the issue of Unitrack's cosmetics, so I thought that making the track snowbound would disguise the rail height and tie spacing issues. Consequently, this allowed me to leave the better-looking track of the JCIR visible. And it relieved me of the challenge of a dual-era layout (despite being confident in pulling it off) as it avoids any compromises I might be reluctant to take. Plus there's the practical aspect of having to "redress" the layout (remove the el, replace vehicles, swap out rolling stock) every time I changed eras.
So, the JCIR ultimately benefits from my frustration at not having a layout to work on at the moment, with that frustration begetting the HMR. Meanwhile, the HMR will benefit from the setting: Hoboken's architecture is generally more varied and interesting, which will allow me more freedom in choosing structures--as contrasted with the constraints imposed by Jersey City's much more limited architectural palate.
As for the layout itself, the HMR is smaller than the JCIR, measuring 24 x 36 inches. But the compact plan is no less intricate, and should make for some interesting photo ops. Also, it's a bi-level plan, with an outer loop on the lower level, and all of the switching action on the upper, connected by a ramp (second track from the left). Admittedly it's a bowl of spaghetti--well, more like a cup of spaghetti--but then again the prototype (http://hbs.railfan.net/map.htm) is quite dense in places. And now, without further ado, the track plan:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr.jpg)
Track has been ordered and should arrive in a few days. In the meantime I'll be cutting up some Gatorfoam so I can lay track the moment it arrives. I'm also sifting through structure kit lists--again--looking for candidates to populate Hoboken in the 30s.
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This comes at the perfect time. My Wife allocated a 3'x10' space in our sitting room for my first layout in 20 years. Went with unitrack, 2 track main line with passing siding and space for 4 industries. looking forward to seeing how this progresses. Glad to see your getting back into it.
Sam
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I like 1930's. What motive power?
Had this in my bookmarks:
http://ponyrr.blogspot.com/
Welcome back :D
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My preference would be steam (0-4-0 or 0-6-0), but I worry about reliability, so I may possibly cobble together a boxcab (http://hbs.railfan.net/hmrr1.jpg) and/or an HH660 (http://hbs.railfan.net/hmrr5.jpg). Until then, I'll probably drag stuff around with a 44-tonner (http://hbs.railfan.net/hmrr6.jpg), since it's a lot less work, although it's too modern for the layout setting.
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According to the #43 cyclopedia the boxcabs were placed into service in 1929 and lasted till 1936.
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Spaghetti and waffles!
Just kidding. I actually like your new direction. First, one advantage of these micro layouts is that you can have several of them to cure the itch for multiple love-affairs with several different prototypes without taking over the house. Second, I was never a fan of the dual era thing. While I know that if anyone can pull it off, it's you, DKS, but no matter what you would do, the train would be an anachronism on one side of the layout or the other.
Looking forward to following along,
DFF
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David, there's a gentleman I operate with here in South Jersey (he's pretty much our construction/track laying guru around here) who is building a basement-sized HO Hoboken Shore layout, http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37700&whichpage=1 (http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37700&whichpage=1). He also has some material and the like on it as well and there's a few reference posts/images in that thread as well,
Phil
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I'll echo what Dave Foxx said about building these micro-layouts... I can definitely see the allure of going that direction.
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+1,000,000 for micro-layouts (this (http://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=52414&d=1386769984) is my next plan, also dense urban industrial)! Excellent plan! As for box cabs, the 44-tonner chassis is a great base for a box cab. Looking forward to this build, and then the continuation of JCIR. 8)
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That grade looks about 7%. :o
Jason
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David, there's a gentleman I operate with here in South Jersey (he's pretty much our construction/track laying guru around here) who is building a basement-sized HO Hoboken Shore layout, http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37700&whichpage=1 (http://www.railroad-line.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=37700&whichpage=1). He also has some material and the like on it as well and there's a few reference posts/images in that thread as well,
Thanks for the link!
That grade looks about 7%. :o
5%.
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I'm sure this will be at least as hawt as the James River Branch!
But, I see that trackplan and wonder how you could resist throwing in a couple wood trestles and a big sombrero in the center!
(http://www.mccormickgallery.com/artists/furlow/img/fm-ap-08.jpg)
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5%.
:?
I don't know your vertical dimension but that should be 9.75 Unitrack (?) with a half a turn rise.
2" / (9.75" * Pi) = 6.5%
Add in vertical easements...
I guess your two levels aren't flat or have separation much less than 2".
Jason
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Vertical separation is ~1.65" (remember, this is a 30s layout, so clearances do not need to be as great as on modern layouts). Length of grade is 36" (not all the parts are the same). Nominal grade is 4.6%; allowing for vertical easements, ~5%.
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Neat. I love the idea of burying the Unitrack in snow. Will you model ice floating in the harbor?
That multi-level, 4-track curve will be a challenge to pull off (but you're up to it) and the tail track on the switch-back to the upper level seems frustratingly short. Might you extend that a bit?
-gfh
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...the tail track on the switch-back to the upper level seems frustratingly short. Might you extend that a bit?
I'd have to lengthen the layout to do that, and I've already started cutting the base materials. As it is, it's long enough for three 40-foot cars and a small loco at the runaround switch, and two cars plus loco at the siding switch. The capacity of the sidings is two cars each, so I think it's all good.
What I have done since posting the plan is adjust the geometry of the tracks at the top runaround switch so as to lengthen the short stub siding at the top right corner of the layout, so I can squeeze in one car (could not have done that before).
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How well does Unitrack handle vertical curves to transition to the 5% grades. I think burying the track in snow solves any esthetic issues of Unitrack, but are you looking at awkward rail joints to create the differing slopes and transitions? Can you heat and bend Unitrack to minimize the rail joints having to absorb all of the transitions?
Just a thought,
DFF
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I plan to pre-bend the end two sections to create the transitions. Heating may work, or I may need to kerf the roadbed, but I don't think it'll be a problem (I've done it to Z scale roadbed track with no issues).
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I plan to pre-bend the end two sections to create the transitions. Heating may work, or I may need to kerf the roadbed, but I don't think it'll be a problem (I've done it to Z scale roadbed track with no issues).
I figured you might already have a plan in place. Sweet.
DFF
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Those boxcabs the prototype had are sweet; I like 600 better than 500 myself
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I plan to pre-bend the end two sections to create the transitions. Heating may work, or I may need to kerf the roadbed, but I don't think it'll be a problem (I've done it to Z scale roadbed track with no issues).
Mike Fifer did the kerf thing for adding horizontal curvature. Seems like it might work for vertical curves too (although that rail is pretty thick in the vertical coordinate!).
Can't seem to embed the video, so here's the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXXLdEv_dqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXXLdEv_dqY)
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Sometimes you can change 'https' to 'http' and get it to work.
Jason
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Dave... I had just fixed it for you, but then... And yes, all you need to do is change https to http.
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I've never even held a piece of unitrack so I don't know for sure, but I've heard of #4 turnouts having problems. Here is a way to notch the stock rails:
http://www.pbase.com/atsf_arizona/kato_4_turnout_tuning&page=all
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I modified twelve #4 turnouts on my newb attempt at a layout. Prior to the mod, I had frequent derailments. Post-mod, derailments almost never occur at turnouts.
Even though I'm less than a year back into the hobby, I spent so much garsh dang time researching the best way to fix #4 turnouts. I was just scared screw up $300+ worth of turnouts.
This is the method that worked best for me:
1) use a Sharpie to mark where the points sit on the outside rails
2) carefully pop/slide the rails out one at a time using needle nose pliers
3) slide the rails out so that the Sharpie mark is beyond the roadbed
4) file using flat-square file, and periodically do the fingernail test for smoothness
5) re-seat rail that has been filed. you'll feel a small click when the rail is re-seated
6) sharpen points using a file, on both the X and Y.
And if you care to do so, it's really easy to add feeders to #4 turnouts using the power routing screws.
BTW- David, I'm very stoked to see this project move forward!
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Thanks, all, for the words of wisdom on Unitrack #4s. My track has arrived and I've assembled it all. Then I started running a few tests, and it appears the ones I have are quite well behaved. So perhaps Kato has improved them; or perhaps I'm just lucky.
Anyway, with the track on hand there will be some progress to report shortly.
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Also, FYI, there's a Trainz version of the line too, in pretty much its entirety.
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Thanks, all, for the words of wisdom on Unitrack #4s. My track has arrived and I've assembled it all. Then I started running a few tests, and it appears the ones I have are quite well behaved. So perhaps Kato has improved them; or perhaps I'm just lucky.
Anyway, with the track on hand there will be some progress to report shortly.
If you get a chance, I'd like to see photos of the [potentially updated] turnouts. With the ones I have, you could clearly see/feel the bluntness of the points.
I'm curious, are you going to use NZT switch machines on the layout? That's a detail I've wanted to add to my layout, but there are a few spots where space is an issue. Of course, I'd have to have the them on all or none of the turnouts.
Glad to hear things are rolling forward.
Noah
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Also, FYI, there's a Trainz version of the line too, in pretty much its entirety.
To be perfectly honest, the only thing this layout has in common with the HMR is the name. The track plan came long before the layout and its setting--the HMR has no tunnels or grades (that I know of), and so I'm just using the railroad's name to establish a locale--albeit one of pure fantasy. I may in fact change the name of the railroad to something vaguely similar, as I'd done with the JCIR.
If you get a chance, I'd like to see photos of the [potentially updated] turnouts.
Will do.
I'm curious, are you going to use NZT switch machines on the layout?
Yes, but I may have to contract someone to assemble them for me! My hands have become so unsteady that I'm not able to handle the targets.
Will you model ice floating in the harbor?
I've since filled in the "harbor" with dry land so I can add more buildings. Mostly I did this to improve the sea of track created by the four concentric lines, the idea being to break up the view and sort of "bury" the track in a brick canyon as much as possible.
Here's an updated version of the plan--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr2.jpg)
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Ahhhh... Just flipping channels, and come across "On the Waterfront", filmed entirely in Hoboken. Some decent scenes with track, freight cars and locomotives.
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I've since filled in the "harbor" with dry land so I can add more buildings. Mostly I did this to improve the sea of track created by the four concentric lines, the idea being to break up the view and sort of "bury" the track in a brick canyon as much as possible.
Here's an updated version of the plan--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr2.jpg)
We'll call this revision number one ;)
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We went from being snowed in to being frozen in, which was good for modeling progress--that, and receiving the order of track.
First, I printed the track plan at 1:1 on full-sheet self-adhesive label stock, and applied the labels to the Gatorfoam subroadbed panel.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3275.jpg)
Next I assembled the track to verify the geometry (it's a testament to AnyRail that everything lined up perfectly). That allowed me to cut the subroadbed panel with a jigsaw to separate the levels and make the grade.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3276.jpg)
To the base I attached a subroadbed part for the hidden track, then attached support strips for the subroadbed panel.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3278.jpg)
Finally I bonded the subroadbed panel to the base, and laid the track. The track is bonded to the subroadbed with thick CA.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3279.jpg)
Access to the hidden track and wiring will be through openings under the buildings, which I'll cut after kitbashing them
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YESSSS! 8)
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Did you do anything special with the joints, like solder them?
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Negative.
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Very very nice...it's stunning how well that would work for me in college...sitting at my desk now and dreaming...at any rate, looking forward to seeing more!
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The idea is a bit addictive. I've been thinking of a petroleum refining complex served with a similar type of small track plan. Lots of prototypes in different eras.
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wastin' no time! this is going to be rad.
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Did you have to address the vertical easements as anticipated or was it pretty painless?
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Did you have to address the vertical easements as anticipated or was it pretty painless?
Totally painless. Once the track was firmly bonded to the Gatorfoam, it followed the same smooth contour with no need to pre-bend, kerf or otherwise modify any track.
If you get a chance, I'd like to see photos of the [potentially updated] turnouts.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3282.jpg)
Here ya go. The points are indeed blunt, but no more so than many other commercial switches that work fine. I haven't found any issues with these switches yet, but if I ever do, I know what to do about it.
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First kitbash under way:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3283.jpg)
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Are you going to bury the "uniballast"?
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Are you going to bury the "uniballast"?
I'm burying everything except the railheads.
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Thanks, great progress.
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It's still a shock to me to see how quickly Unitrack layouts come together.
I think of laying track to be this long arduous process, then boom, Unitrack layout. Done in 20.
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Thanks for that shot, David. You can pretty easily sharpen them in place if ever necessary.
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Experiment: making snowbound track. I was faced with this same challenge for the JCIR, and now I'm glad I changed plans because Unitrack has made this process infinitely easier. My original idea was to spread plaster over the track and then trowel it away with a special tool to make flangeways. But this method raised several concerns. For one thing, it's messy, and requires taking special precautions with things like switches. I was also concerned about corrosion of joints; maintenance, such as cleaning rails (ideally the snow surface would be just below railhead height); and durability, given how soft plaster is and how readily it stains. Granted, I could use Hydrocal and seal it, but that would add more mess, and I really wanted a "clean" approach.
The solution was sitting in a pile on top of a cabinet: Fun Foam. I use it to line drawers to protect rolling stock and other models, and out of habit I just happen to prefer white. A quick measurement showed the foam is just slightly thinner than the rail is tall, which was perfect. So I decided to do a quick test using some leftover Unitrack parts.
First, after laying the track on a scrap of Gatorfoam, I sprayed it flat white so that all visible surfaces were "snowy."
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3284.jpg)
Next, using a paper cutter I cut a narrow strip of foam, and glued it between the rails. The trickiest part was getting the width just right. Bonding it in place was no problem because foam is very "CA friendly," so it bonded quickly and securely with thick CA.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3285.jpg)
Then I built up the surfaces to either side of the track with plain 3/16-inch thick Foamcore.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3286.jpg)
Finally I added foam strips along the outsides of the rails. The inside edges of these strips had to be beveled to prevent the track "spikes" from raising the foam up above the railhead.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3290.jpg)
The finished effect is just what I sought; later I can add more strips along the sides to simulate piles of snow plowed off of the track. In addition to being a clean process, it's also darned fast, so it won't take me a week to do the whole layout.
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You learn something new every day... "CA-friendly foam." Who knew?
Are you worried the snow between the rails is too uniform?
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Are you worried the snow between the rails is too uniform?
With recent train traffic and a plow on the loco...wouldn't it be?
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Looks good but check the trip pins don't touch the top of the foam.
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I'm sure fluids will leak on to the fresh snow. I'm excited to see how this plays out.
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Are you worried the snow between the rails is too uniform?
Edit: see my response to Ed's post.
Looks good but check the trip pins don't touch the top of the foam.
The surface of the foam sits just below the railheads. Therefore, if all trip pins are property set (that is, ~.010 above the railheads), then there should never be a problem.
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I think you hit that look, but is that really what track in industrial areas like this looks like beyond the first day of the snow fall?
Take a look at these: https://picasaweb.google.com/103328750375507168249/January42014Baltimore80macHunt#5965277562251779954
https://picasaweb.google.com/103328750375507168249/January42014Baltimore80macHunt#5965277593445661554
I think it'd be much more impressive if you could reproduce some of the less "clean" aspects of it.
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I think it'd be much more impressive if you could reproduce some of the less "clean" aspects of it.
Absolutely. Remember my "dirty snow" experiment? That's still the rule of the day, and the finished effect will be far less "pristine" than appears in this test. I was simply looking for a clean (modeling-wise) and simple way of getting snow onto the tracks merely as a starting point.
Eventually things will start to look more like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/63255278@N08/6816671010
But still not sure about this: https://plus.google.com/photos/103328750375507168249/albums/5965277521460676193/5965429572543017586?banner=pwa&pid=5965429572543017586&oid=103328750375507168249
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I wonder if blowing a shrink-wrap gun, or a hair dryer, or hovering a soldering iron over the foam would warp it enough to create that uneven texture.
As opposed to relying only on adding your fab "dirty snow" to create the effect.
As you know (and thus why you're using the foam), the more you can do with the "base" layer, the more you can focus the detailing on details, rather than um-teen layers to get a basic effect.
Will be very groovy!
Perhaps install some straws under the upper level so, when everything's done, you can drop a little dry ice in a chamber and "animate" the layout with all that steam seeping from locos, buildings, people, etc. :ashat:
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I wonder if blowing a shrink-wrap gun, or a hair dryer, or hovering a soldering iron over the foam would warp it enough to create that uneven texture.
Tried that once. All it does is shrink and get kind of gooey.
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Rand Hood published great methods using modelling paste and paint. He spread it like frosting with an palette knife. I think it would work very well over the foam. The foam is a great idea.
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Tried that once. All it does is shrink and get kind of gooey.
I was looking at your reference photo, and seeing the little dips near the spikes / ties.
Wasn't thinking of melting, just heating up so a finger or dowel could more-easily slightly squish/form the edges of the foam along the center of the track.
Maybe even just pressing with finger?
Just something subtle to get rid of the sooper-clean & flat line/edges.
I'm sure you have your tricks & looking forward to seeing the magic :)
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(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3290.jpg)
1) Hard to believe there's Unitrack under there.
2) I never would have thought to paint the track white, but now it seems so obvious that if you painted it a rusty or grimy color, the dark color would emphasize the oversize flangeways. Good job!
3) How in the hell do you get such precise cuts such that there's no gaps between the rail and the "snow"? Sure, you can press on the foam and get an impression of the railhead, but then you need to think ahead to allow for and cut the bevel. I'd never get that as tight as you have it in this picture.
DFF
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How about Mike Confalones method of making "snow". I believe he uses white foam that is similar for use in pottery type projects? Whatever it is it's VERY convincing.
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Kind of like Mike Danneman snow
http://www.nscalerailroadn.com/039/NSR039.html
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He used marble dust, didn't he? Plowed out the flanges as I recall.
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I was looking at your reference photo, and seeing the little dips near the spikes / ties.
Wasn't thinking of melting, just heating up so a finger or dowel could more-easily slightly squish/form the edges of the foam along the center of the track.
Maybe even just pressing with finger?
Just something subtle to get rid of the sooper-clean & flat line/edges.
The clean edges help disguise the heft of the Code 80 rail, and also avoid interference with wheels. So I'll be focusing on some subtle surface texture more than the overall shape, which I'm pretty much leaving alone.
How in the hell do you get such precise cuts such that there's no gaps between the rail and the "snow"? Sure, you can press on the foam and get an impression of the railhead, but then you need to think ahead to allow for and cut the bevel. I'd never get that as tight as you have it in this picture.
Actually, I didn't do any "precise" cutting at all, other than the width of the piece between the rails. Fun Foam is very soft and bendy; all of the pieces were cut straight, and then bent to fit the track as I glued it in place. The bevel on the outside pieces not only avoided the spikes, but allowed me to press the foam up tight against the rail for a seamless fit.
Kind of like Mike Danneman snow
For now. But not for long...
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Also for some reason last night at work I was thinking about all the retaining walls at the "incline". Was think about a stepped version of this, but inset with Chooch cut stone flex walls:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-u6lrnuz9D_4/Us3X1OnBb5I/AAAAAAAAK4o/MBEGYBlQb1g/s800/20130908_171524.jpg)
So the columns and caps would be old concrete and the bulk area would be cut stone similar to the bridge wall behind the CNJ Bronx terminal:
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/crrnjbxt8401000.jpg
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/crrnj1000pubphoto2.jpg
You could integrate tunnel portals as well:
http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/crrnj1000.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harsimus_Stem_Embankment
Give it a whole subway trench look.
Just talkin' :P
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Already stocked up on retaining wall material. Concrete will be used in a few areas (mostly around the road bridges), but the bulk of it will be Chooch stone.
Most all of the snow, for those who may have missed it, will be done like this: https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=27762.msg334912#msg334912
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Will look forward to your Chooch stone. On mine I spent some unpleasant time removing all the "sticky" from the back with automotive brake parts cleaner, couldn't think of anything else. I thought it was easier to ACC down than to rely on that 1/16" thick coat of slime.
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I'm not using the flex, but the old (old!) cast stuff. Easy enough to curve with a quick dip in boiling water.
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David, how are you planning on cleaning the track with the "snow"on the outside of the track is so close to the rails? It does look great!
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David, how are you planning on cleaning the track with the "snow"on the outside of the track is so close to the rails? It does look great!
Same way I got the white paint off the railheads after installing the snow... Bright Boy. (It's right up against the sides of the rails, but not quite as close to the railheads as it may appear in the photos, thanks to the white paint.)
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I watch this snow thing with great interest. About 1/4 of my layout is planned to be under snow.
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I haven't found any issues with these switches yet, but if I ever do, I know what to do about it.
Throw the completed layout in the trash like last time? SAY IT AIN'T SO! :scared:
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David,
Your snow is gorgeous. I really liked what Mike Canfalone was doing on his Allagash but yours is nth degree sweeter. I'm eager to see more.
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Snow!
https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31749.msg353934#msg353934
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David,
Your snow is gorgeous. I really liked what Mike Canfalone was doing on his Allagash but yours is nth degree sweeter. I'm eager to see more.
I can't wait to see DKS's snow attempts on this again.
I'm a big fan of Mike's Allagash and can't wait to see it in person again. It really captures northern New England Mud Season.
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Getting closer to snow time...
Painted the track--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3291.jpg)
--and then added the Foamcore underlayment to fill in around all of the "Uniroadbed."
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3292.jpg)
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I spy a change in the layout of the roads.
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Looks cool! (er, cold?)
What kind of loco & rolling stock combos fit in that short tail track at the lower right?
Any plan for a short extension (like a girder bridge) during ops?
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I spy a change in the layout of the roads.
You do indeed. And I may not yet be done fiddle-farting with them; trying to get the best arrangement to suit the buildings I want to use.
What kind of loco & rolling stock combos fit in that short tail track at the lower right?
Three 40-footers and a 44-tonner fit at the end of the runaround; two 40-footers and loco fit at the end of the switchback.
Any plan for a short extension (like a girder bridge) during ops?
It has crossed my mind, but presently nothing is in the works.
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OK I was thinking some more :scared:
Looking at that upper tunnel area where it sorta looks like a junction, you could use a tower, maybe that nice model Atlas makes. But I was really thinking of the Erie tower in Akron, OH that was perched up on a building near an overpass:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tubbs/ErieLackawanna/29-17.JPG
http://www.angelfire.com/oh3/csx4290/jotower.html
http://broadway.pennsyrr.com/Rail/Prr/Maps/Itlk/jo_o.jpg
Just ideas :D
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Hmmm... me likey...
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Except towers are only usually present on rather busy (at one time) mainlines. Just sayin...
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Well a train circling the mainline will pass the junction every few seconds, I'd call that busy. Ed's law. :P
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In reality, for the era and the industrial saturation, I would imagine that there would probably be several yard transfers, if not more, each day, running between the industrial zone and mainline; plus, there would definitely be commuter runs.
Also, with the track density of the plan, I imagine the eye would allow that to make sense.
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I have the Atlas tower and it is a great model packed with detail, I can't seem to find a use for it though. 1930/40's NJ looks like a fit.
http://img1.etsystatic.com/002/0/6722329/il_570xN.352819153_b697.jpg
Plus the staircase would be nice.
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Well a train circling the mainline will pass the junction every few seconds, I'd call that busy. Ed's law. :P
Not you too now... lol.
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If you're going to do a tower, that Atlas tower has been everywhere, so I'd definitely recommend something a little more unique.
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If you're going to do a tower, that Atlas tower has been everywhere, so I'd definitely recommend something a little more unique.
And how often do I use stock kits on a layout? :trollface:
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But every time I think of my layout, I'm reminded of this all-time great--
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FOR. THE. WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Pardon me, but could you help out a fellow American who's down on his luck?
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After a couple of very busy weeks dealing with house guests, as well as Hurricane Karin (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=31627.0) (great time, BTW, especially our day-long visit to Rick Spano's (http://scenicedandundecided.net/)), the house is finally empty and quiet--even more so now that we're getting snowed in. Perfect excuse to get things done on the layout!
First up, a couple of Creative Executive Decisions.
CED #362: Since the JCIR (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=27762.0) is getting locked into an 80s era, the el would have to be nixed. I didn't like the idea of losing it, though, so since the HMR is 30s era, I'm giving it the el. I've added it to the track plan (black lines):
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr3.jpg)
A reference image helped me arrive at this decision. It shows a factory faced by an el, with trucks parked at the freight docks underneath. The industry to the left on Willow Avenue will mimic this scene.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/freight_ref.jpg)
Another similar scene helps reinforce the feeling I'm attempting to capture:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/freight_ref2.jpg)
At the lower left corner of the layout, the el will rise sharply from street level, similar to this (although the street level portion likely won't fit):
(http://davidksmith.com/images/el_start.jpg)
CED #387: This one might stir up some discussion... I'm seriously tempted to make this a "monochrome" layout--that is, all done in shades of grey, resulting in what amounts to a 3-D black-and-white photograph. It's not an original idea, to be sure, and it will certainly be a challenge--but it surely couldn't be harder to pull off than a dual-era layout. The biggest hurdle will be nailing the greys: they need to all be perfectly identical in color temperature, or else the effect will fail. So I know in advance I'll be mixing a lot of paints, always starting from the same sources.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3302.jpg)
There's been some progress on structures. In the view above, the large industry at top center is Hills Brothers Coffee, an homage of sorts to the giant Maxwell House Coffee plant that used to dominate the Hoboken skyline.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/maxwell_house.jpg)
In the foreground, below, is a factory based very loosely on the Stahl Soap Company, which still exists and was at one time serviced by the HMR
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3305.jpg)
The path of the former curved siding can easily be seen in the reference image below.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/soap_factory.jpg)
Next up is a hotel and an apartment building. They are DPM kits that have been enlarged to balance the heft of the industries.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3304.jpg)
One last structure, the gas station (visible to the right in the first pic) was swiped from the JCIR. With the change in era, I decided to use a more modern service station on that layout. The older one originally intended for it fit the space on the HMR perfectly, with no modification needed at all.
My goal is to not have any duplicate structures between the two layouts, save for an apartment building that will utilize the same Reeds Books DPM source kit, since these buildings were ubiquitous throughout all of the towns in the area. I might also use the Atlas Middlesex kit on this layout as well, assuming I can't find a suitable replacement.
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I like the monochrome idea, especially with the wintery setting, but one thing that would appeal to me about the 30's is all the different shades of boxcar reds, which will stand out nicely against the snow, and of course everything would be caked with grime and gunk and the trim of the buildings would be brighter colors; the point is I think the layout would have more of an impact if you were to blend the other colors in with the whites of the snow and greys of the concrete and street; if you really want the challenge of the monochrome I do think it would end up looking neat and be challenging, but I also think that the opportunities presented by modeling the city in color would be like that of an impressionistic painting, where you could almost take the approach of trying to balance darks and lights as if the layout was a painting.
Or maybe all the calculus I've been doing has melted my brain...
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What ever you end up doing, keep doing it.
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Will the trains be black and white too? :?
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Will the trains be black and white too? :?
Yep.
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I wonder what it was like to be living back when everything was black and white. I cant imagine it now that color was invented.
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The B&W theme reminds me of a 1:24 diorama I saw few years ago at a model contest. It was housed in a hollowed out shell of an old portable TV set. It depicted a scene from an old TV show, and it was all done in grayscale.
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Gray weathering :tommann:
:D
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I think that it would be interesting to see and photograph but that after a time the real life viewing would bother me. I love b&w but love finding color photographs of the grimy city from '30-'50 even more. I personally think that after a time the total monochrome would be "Furlowing" it. JMHO
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There was a monochrome N-track module I saw a picture of in a magazine. Probably in the late '90s and I have no idea what magazine it was (could have been a book even). It represented the NYC, with the New York skyline in the background. Everything was in full color but had been selected based on being grey. Grey boxcars, grey Hudsons, etc.
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...total monochrome would be "Furlowing" it.
Hmmm...
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There's been some progress on structures. In the view above, the large industry at top center is Hills Brothers Coffee, an homage of sorts to the giant Maxwell House Coffee plant that used to dominate the Hoboken skyline.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/maxwell_house.jpg)
You're going to replace the Maxwell House plant, which was actually there, with a competitor that wasn't? I'm confused.
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You're going to replace the Maxwell House plant, which was actually there, with a competitor that wasn't? I'm confused.
I cannot possibly model even a fraction of the real Maxwell House plant--it would be considerably larger than my whole layout. So, I am freelancing a structure that has a similar feel, and instead of trying to pass it off as the real deal, I'm renaming it. I'm not "replacing" anything. Bear in mind, this layout is very far removed from being representative of anything real; it's meant merely to be evocative of the locale, nothing more.
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More evidence of the genius of David K. Smith.
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At the 2004 N Scale East Convention in Chantilly, there was a monochrome NTRAK module...it was quite striking, as I'm sure this would be...
JSP
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Although I like the idea of doing a B&W layout, and I know you could certainly pull it off, I know that ultimately you'll end up nitpicking something you wished you would have done better and the layout may end up being scrapped before it's time.
That being said... Although I'd love to see how you would pull it off, I'd much rather see you just pull off doing a gritty 3-days-after-the-snowstorm layout.
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...I'd much rather see you just pull off doing a gritty 3-days-after-the-snowstorm layout.
Well, regardless of my approach, that's my ultimate goal. Although I will confess I'm leaning away from the monochrome gimmick a bit, particularly with Ian's "Furlowing" remark... kind of a sobering slap to the face, in a way...
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-buCORXDWQOw/UWAFSZfpDbI/AAAAAAAAJRk/0GHTys85Qs8/s800/right%2520street3.jpg)
VS.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-mRElEAd7Cic/UuBInURpb_I/AAAAAAAAK84/10uMlvxo47c/s800/right_street33.jpg)
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I'd go colour and just photograph it black and white if you ever wanted that look, but that's just me.
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I was researching structures using Bing Maps, but it's sometimes difficult to correlate specific buildings with the HBR, since the railroad has been all but eradicated. So, I superimposed a map of the railroad over satellite images, and as I did this, I noticed something quite unexpected: my little fantasy layout is actually more like the HBR than I'd thought. I color-coded the areas of the railroad that correspond (rather loosely) with the track plan. The most startling coincidence is that the siding which serves the soap factory is at the end of a switchback connected to a runaround (yellow lines), which is pretty much replicated on the layout, including the soap factory. The crisscrossing sidings that serve a tall skinny industry on the layout (green) have counterparts in real life that likewise serve a tall skinny industry. And the south end of the HBR yard has multiple parallel tracks that bend sharply (blue). Admittedly, I'm stretching things to make a case for the layout as having any real prototype fidelity, but I did find these likenesses intriguing, to say the least, and makes me feel a little better about the layout.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hbs-mapa.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/color_map.jpg)
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Woa, must be a glitch in the matrix encoding :trollface:
Seriously though, that's pretty neat; it kind of reminds me of how Sam Posey remarked in his book that he had been building the Colorado Midland all along; I suppose tight spaces will be tight spaces, regardless of what scale they be
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You can always monochrome a diorama or something.
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Well, regardless of my approach, that's my ultimate goal. Although I will confess I'm leaning away from the monochrome gimmick a bit, particularly with Ian's "Furlowing" remark... kind of a sobering slap to the face, in a way...
Sorry. You can give me the Douche Bag of the Year Award.
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Sorry. You can give me the Douche Bag of the Year Award.
No need for apology--it was an honest and useful remark, and I was not offended. It was a perspective I'd not considered, and given my feelings about Furlow, it made me reconsider.
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I cannot possibly model even a fraction of the real Maxwell House plant--it would be considerably larger than my whole layout. So, I am freelancing a structure that has a similar feel, and instead of trying to pass it off as the real deal, I'm renaming it. I'm not "replacing" anything. Bear in mind, this layout is very far removed from being representative of anything real; it's meant merely to be evocative of the locale, nothing more.
Should have figured you'd have a logical reason. Someday I'll catch on. (Just don't expect it to happen anytime soon. :D)
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As I progress with more structures, I also progress with concepts. And I've realized that, up to now, I've been treating this layout as more of a novelty than a layout. With the help of Railwire member observations, as well as my little revelation about the track plan, I've started taking the layout a little more seriously. Consequently I've made a few revisions (Chris will especially enjoy playing "spot the differences"). I've firmed up the design of the el, and added a station stop. I also buried more of the outer loop, both to reduce the roundy-round effect it creates, and also give me a little more real estate for more structures--it helps reinforce the congestion that characterizes the area, a quality that dominates the majority of reference images I've collected. And to add still more congestion, I plotted out a street-level trolley route, which jogs from 16th Street to Grand Avenue--right in the thick of it.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr4.jpg)
A few of the many reference images that have been inspiring much of these revisions include--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref1.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref2.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref3.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref4.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref5.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref6.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_ref7.jpg)
But one image has caught my attention more than almost any I've seen in the recent past, and may one day give rise to a new, much more "proto" layout...
(http://davidksmith.com/images/new_layout.jpg)
Well, it's colder than a flippin' witch's tit outside--perfect excuse to get back to the workbench to bash more structures...
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So winning. If your inspiration emerges when you are locked up by the weather, just think what will happen when you are in the woods at your new house.
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That trolly line will create quite a tricky bit of trackwork where it crosses the turnout. Will they be functional crossings or just props (which would simplify the task).
Loving how this layout has evolved. My initial reaction was that it looked like half was cut off the right side based on the upper level spurs, but now the vision is very clear. It will be a great platform for getting the feel of that era and urban landscape.
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Will they be functional crossings or just props...
Props.
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You're sick.
I like it!
And I'm definitely a fan of "more proto" and "better operations".
Next thing you know, you'll be installing car card pockets around the outside of it.
Switches make expensive scenery.
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This:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/new_layout.jpg)
Is just awesome!
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I like changes, plus more images to add to the flip book :P
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Where's the rest of the layout? It seems to be missing something.
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More structure progress. Finally resolved my dilemma over the tall industry in the corner, which was originally going to be another Middlesex bash. Wanting to avoid a duplicate, I was stuck, out of options, until I visited Rick Spano's last week, and saw a Kibri kit he'd bashed, and realized I'd forgotten all about the Kibri industrial kit series. Although it's a European kit (http://www.eurorailhobbies.com/erh_detail.asp?mn=6&ca=18&sc=N&stock=K37230), there are lots of clones of this style of building here in the States. So, problem solved. (Except now I have a frack load of windows to make!)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3312.jpg)
There will be a twin for it to the right of the short track, with a bridge walk connecting them. Then, over on the corner of Clinton and 15th is the only unmodified kit on the layout, whereas it's conjoined counterpart comprises parts from four different DPM kits.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3313.jpg)
This:
Is just awesome!
Innit? I felt as though I'd won the lottery when I found it.
Where's the rest of the layout? It seems to be missing something.
That's all there is, all there ever was, and all there ever will be.
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I was researching structures using Bing Maps, but it's sometimes difficult to correlate specific buildings with the HBR, since the railroad has been all but eradicated.
http://ponyrr.blogspot.com/2014/01/us-testing-building.html
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...plus more images to add to the flip book
Chris, I think you'll appreciate these:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/alco1.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/alco2.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/alco3.jpg)
The front half of the building is gone: http://binged.it/1famyWG
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This:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/new_layout.jpg)
Is just awesome!
The gentleman's layout who is building the Hoboken Shore Railroad I mentioned earlier in this thread has parts of this arrangement on his layout:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Hpoy2wIpm6c/UtsGXZ-j-aI/AAAAAAAAFiM/hG6hOhCSyMU/s640/DSC00925.JPG)
Phil
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Where's the rest of the layout? It seems to be missing something.
Cowbell. Needs more cowbell.
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so much awesomeness, Its like coming home from work and finding another chapter in a favorite book.
Sam
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I like the way this is headed!
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3313.jpg)
This shot, with its ghostly track and sketched-in streets, reminds me of one of those scenes from the Walthers catalog:
(http://www.euromodeltrains.com/trains/products/Walthers1/933/2603.gif)
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The gentleman's layout who is building the Hoboken Shore Railroad I mentioned earlier in this thread has parts of this arrangement on his layout:
I went digging for more maps of the HMR, and found this, courtesy of Chris' link:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_complete.jpg)
I wondered if it was at all feasible to build it in N scale with no compression. I figured everything of interest was north of the Maxwell plant (north is to the right), so I cut it off there, then did some rough calculations.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_complete1.jpg)
If built with zero compression, it would be roughly 30 by 45 feet. Not bad, really. I could envision building it in two stages, starting with the north half as a 20 x 24 foot unit. I could also see opportunities for very slight compression that wouldn't impact fidelity but make it more practical to build--particularly the 8.5-foot-wide central portion. Anyway, it feels like a viable if long-term project.
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I went digging for more maps of the HMR, and found this, courtesy of Chris' link:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_complete.jpg)
I wondered if it was at all feasible to build it in N scale with no compression. I figured everything of interest was north of the Maxwell plant (north is to the right), so I cut it off there, then did some rough calculations.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_complete1.jpg)
If built with zero compression, it would be roughly 30 by 45 feet. Not bad, really. I could envision building it in two stages, starting with the north half as a 20 x 24 foot unit. I could also see opportunities for very slight compression that wouldn't impact fidelity but make it more practical to build--particularly the 8.5-foot-wide central portion. Anyway, it feels like a viable if long-term project.
THIS.
I like this.
I sense the coming of an extra shack on the DKS homestead... Someday.
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Looks like the core bits of the railroad can fit in a 12 x 16 foot space, with minimal dimensional compression and no loss of track from a logistical standpoint.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_complete3.jpg)
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Nice, perhaps except for the 5' reach needed!
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Nice, perhaps except for the 5' reach needed!
I figure it would be open on both sides of that part of the layout, assuming the room was 20 feet long.
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Looks like the core bits of the railroad can fit in a 12 x 16 foot space, with minimal dimensional compression and no loss of track from a logistical standpoint.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_complete3.jpg)
Win. Much win.
This needs to be a thing.
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Parts list:
33 left #5s
33 right #5s
3 left #7s
1 right #7
2 left curved
1 right curved
310 feet of flex
plus the following custom components:
5 curved crossings
6 double-slips
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That would be good with space on both sides. I can't help but imagine what an interesting 4' X 8' that arrangement on the left side would make.
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(http://bettermarksnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/stay-focused-in-school.jpg)
:trollface:
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(http://bettermarksnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/stay-focused-in-school.jpg)
:trollface:
Oh, shush, I was just having a bit of fun... :trollface:
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(http://bettermarksnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/stay-focused-in-school.jpg)
:trollface:
This is a thread drift, of sorts, that that I think we can all agree with. Lol 8)
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(http://bettermarksnow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/stay-focused-in-school.jpg)
:trollface:
Its a good thing I haven't been drinking today :trollface:
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More structure progress. First up, a clutch of tenements--their rear ends, anyway (and potentially more interesting than the reverse)--through which the EL passes.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3319.jpg)
A small, anonymous industry--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3320.jpg)
A serpentine warehouse...
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3321.jpg)
...which creates a nice sense of congestion, with a classic brick tunnel through which the tracks wind:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3322.jpg)
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Now that is Cool!
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Knowing how small the layout is, that last shot is incredible. Very nicely done!
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Very cool. There are some very well composed viewing angles, which really creates a great sense of "space," even in a congested urban jungle setting like this.
Do you find that you plan these different "sight lines" as you are creating the track plan, or do they come through experimentation as you are creating the buildings on the layout itself? I've been striving to visualize the different scene compositions/lines of sight as I plan a layout, but sometimes it's hard to really picture the effect of each "scene" without seeing in real life.
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Do you find that you plan these different "sight lines" as you are creating the track plan, or do they come through experimentation as you are creating the buildings on the layout itself?
Yes. That is to say, some of the scenes I visualize almost from the outset, while others come after experimentation. Still others are "happy accidents" that I neither planned nor strove to achieve, but simply discovered along the way. That last shot is actually a mix of all three.
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Just noticed that last trackplan revise, ;)
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Just noticed that last trackplan revise, ;)
Only fitting!
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I'm late to the party but following the link from the Weekend update which brought me through these 10 odd pages. I thought this was the first (I've really lost track) industrial layout but then I saw the white unitrack and realized this is a whole nuther layout. Well great work David. You've gotten this planned and executed in a very short amount of time. That says there is much passion here. It's awesome to see come together. Love the Kibri bash. If I didn't know better I'd swear you and Chris were racing. :ashat:
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Structure countdown. The last of the principal structures for the HMR are in the works.
Here's a large tenement building comprised (once again (http://www.jerseycityindustrial.net/build_4.htm)) of six DPM Reed Books kit fronts bashed together.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3327.jpg)
Hoboken and Jersey City are littered with these buildings; this one in particular is just down the street from the Lipton Tea plant, home turf for the Hoboken Manufacturers Railroad.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/ref-10.jpg)
Next up is a teensy little industry made from the backs of two Reed Books kits, sitting next to the reconfigured gas station (Walther's State Line Farm Supply).
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3328.jpg)
The gas station is patterned after a real one in Hoboken.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/ref-11.jpg)
And the little industry is vaguely reminiscent of Windsor Wax Co.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/ref-8.jpg)
And lastly we have one more small industry to sit across from the warehouse: it's two DPM Otto's Parts sliced and diced to make one just slightly more industrial-ish, less downtown-ish building front.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3326.jpg)
Inspiration was drawn very loosely from this reference image taken a block or so from the Lipton plant:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/ref-9.jpg)
Aside from little things like crossing shanties, the newsstand and such, all of the buildings are now accounted for and under way.
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Looking great, David! I'm really liking how you are interpreting the Hoboken vibe of early 20thC. I think it would be superb to include the elevated rail! This may have already been posted, but for more information on the railroad, viewers may be interested in the complete document where you found the map and photo on my blog. http://ponyrr.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html (http://ponyrr.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html) It has some great information on industries served, rates charged, etc. on the HBS in the 1950s. The railroad could be bought for song then since the traffic had really thinned out after World War II.
Did you know it was illegal to photograph in Hoboken for awhile because things had gotten so bad the mayor forbade it? Interesting story at the Hoboken Historical Museum online resources. The article is from U.S. Camera and is called 'Hoboken, The photographer's forbidden paradise' with photos from 1940-41ish. http://hoboken.pastperfect-online.com/32340cgi/mweb.exe?request=record;id=96BED15D-5D3B-4C69-AFDA-185344644150;type=201
You might also like this photo I recently posted of the US Testing building. It's a good example of a typical concrete frame industrial building with steel window infill. Must have been some great light in there.
I've got more stuff offline if there is anything in particular you are looking for.
Looking forward to seeing more of your progress.
Riley
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-5gMDu5DTrCA/UuEkrIEeYDI/AAAAAAAACQ8/tUuHZdvpkoQ/s1600/US+Testing_SM.jpg)
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OK, show of hands, how many of you saw this coming? (Chris will have a field day with this!) I woke up this morning in the middle of a dream about this layout. The design was rather different, and I realized I may have had a vision of something that was possibly better. So I ran over to my computer, fired up AnyRail, and tried to duplicate what I had in my head.
What I envisioned was another level to the layout. Right now it's two; in my dream it was three. Now, in the dream it was three full levels--which is impractical--but I realized that I could still raise part of the line by a small amount (say, just 3/4 inch) to add visual interest. The only way to do it, however, was to move the passing siding, because that stretch would now be on a grade. But eventually I realized this was to my advantage, for many reasons.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6a.jpg)
After I finalized the plan, I began to perceive the operational improvements. The switchback at the end of the ramp up is much longer, allowing me to pull a "full" train (4-5 cars, loco and possibly even a bobber) off the main, and push it back to the relocated runaround. The tail on the runaround is just long enough for a loco and one car, which is all I need. So, in addition to superior operation, the plan offers improved cosmetics to boot by eliminating that awkward stack of four parallel tracks.
The biggest downside... most of the buildings will need to be modified--some subtly, some radically, and a couple would go away--and I'd just finished the shells for all of them. On the bright side, however, I gained space for two more industries and a few other little buildings. Plus, the street-level trolley only crosses one track at 90 degrees. I was sweating having to do all of those crossings in the old design, even though they were dummies, although the reference image below made me wonder why I was so worried--and wonder how the trolleys stayed on the rails...
(http://davidksmith.com/images/ref-13.jpg)
I still can't decide if this makes me certifiable or not--it probably does. But I've always contended that a good track design is one that can withstand revisions, and I've never been one to shy away from starting over (or nearly so) if it results in improvements.
Did you know it was illegal to photograph in Hoboken for awhile because things had gotten so bad the mayor forbade it? Interesting story at the Hoboken Historical Museum online resources. The article is from U.S. Camera and is called 'Hoboken, The photographer's forbidden paradise' with photos from 1940-41ish. http://hoboken.pastperfect-online.com/32340cgi/mweb.exe?request=record;id=96BED15D-5D3B-4C69-AFDA-185344644150;type=201
Riley, welcome to the Railwire. And thank you for the link to that article--it's fascinating and provides considerable visual food for thought.
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I like it a lot. I'm not sure I follow how this adds a new level though -- didn't you have the el in the plan already? Is the goldenrod track the street-level trolly?
(http://davidksmith.com/images/ref-10.jpg)
Pictures like this make me glad you have chosen to model in colour.
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I'm not sure I follow how this adds a new level though -- didn't you have the el in the plan already? Is the goldenrod track the street-level trolly?
I was not counting the el as a "level" as it's really a prop. The inside curve between the two shanties will rise up slightly, so that the sidings for the soap and coffee factories are lower than the passing siding and remaining track--not by much, just enough to break up the dead flat terrain. And the goldenrod line is indeed the street level trolley.
EDIT: I've annotated the plan with elevations to clear up the confusion.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6ax.jpg)
Also, one may wonder about all of the wasted time making the base and laying the track, only to tear it all apart and start over, but I spend far more time on any one structure than on the base and tracklaying combined. So it really only set me back about one evening.
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I like the changes. You know me; I've never been afraid to make changes to a track plan when the desire strikes. The dividends usually pay off with more realism or better operations. Keep it up!
DFF
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It was all a dream. I'm affriad to go to sleep now :scared:
I think the embankment along 16th street will look nice.
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One other little tweak... and nothing that's even visible. As I took stock of the track needed to make the changes, I found that I had a switch left over (because a left got swapped for a right). Having the spare inspired me to add an operational feature: staging. With the addition of one more switch, I can create a hidden passing siding, where I'll be able to swap two trains. Granted, everything is hidden so there will be a few functional challenges to address, but I don't see them as showstoppers. So now the hidden half of the outer loop looks like this:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6ap.jpg)
Now I can have one train running laps while I switch the other. Then I can park the one on the loop, bring down the one I switched, bring up the other one, and have at it again. I'm psyched.
I can't imagine packing much more into 2 by 3 feet...
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I was actually going to suggest hidden staging. Although we have discussed our dislike for a lot of hidden track recently on another thread. Here, it's not a lot, and you can easily provide access through the fascia. It's either staging or a runaround, both of which add immensely to ops.
DFF
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I can't imagine packing much more into 2 by 3 feet...
Add another cross over to the El, then get two trains. One starts at each end, the go to the middle and stop at the station, then go through the cross overs. Repeat. I'm sure that could be automated. Also, automate a tram going back and forth.
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I can't imagine packing much more into 2 by 3 feet...
Challenge accepted:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/NEAAAOxyRhBSxKIz/$_57.JPG)
:trollface:
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Haha. But you know that slotcar/railroad layout was probably pretty bad a$$ in its day!
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I can't imagine packing much more into 2 by 3 feet...
Hey DKS, got a minute? :trollface:
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I can't imagine packing much more into 2 by 3 feet...
TWSS...
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Hey DKS, got a minute? :trollface:
Not a valid vimeo URL
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Not a valid vimeo URL
Wow that was great put me down for that plan as well.
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I can't imagine packing much more into 2 by 3 feet...
You could always add an underground subway . . . :D
Tim
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After discovering the mother lode of HMR historical information and photos, I spent most of my modeling hours recently doing research. The reference images offered a double-whammy of information: period photos taken in the snow! It was also fascinating to learn the HMR started out in life as an electric line, using steeplecab locos, and later some steam, before the conversion to diesel in the late 40s. The roster in 1929 was extensive and eclectic--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_r1.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_r2.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_r3.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_r4.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_r5.jpg)
The research helped me fine-tune the (revised) plan with the remaining industries, assorted buildings and details. Play "spot the differences" along with Chris:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6bx.jpg)
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Coal trestle for the win! :D
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Doubt it could be modeled, but as I drove to work in my low rider today. I noticed all the cracks in the road were heaved up like speed bumps from the cold.
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Doubt it could be modeled, but as I drove to work in my low rider today. I noticed all the cracks in the road were heaved up like speed bumps from the cold.
Drip CA from top, or hold soldering iron below.
Coal trestle?
Across the street from housing?
Nobody with a heart (or lung) would ever allow that!
:facepalm:
What I like are the many various viewing angles--move your head a few inches, take a step or two--and it's a whole new world (sorry, I meant "scene").
Fabulous planning and balance of scenes and ops.
Is the section highlighted (in teal?) between 15th and Stephen A Green open or covered?
And have you decided about the height of the Terminal Cold Storage at center-bottom?
Seems like tall would make more brick canyon & viewblock but a low (1-story or even "open" industry) would allow a better frame of the back of the tenements and allow the eye to take in everything from Spano Service through the X-ing shanty to the active track disappearing down under the EL left after the Rapid Transport Co.
And are the catenary wires active or dummy? :D
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Just give in already and fill the whole room! :drool:
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Doubt it could be modeled, but as I drove to work in my low rider today. I noticed all the cracks in the road were heaved up like speed bumps from the cold.
I think I'd have fun modeling frost heaves, but most of the roads will be Belgian block.
Coal trestle?
Across the street from housing?
Nobody with a heart (or lung) would ever allow that!
Maybe today. Back then, it was commonplace.
What I like are the many various viewing angles--move your head a few inches, take a step or two--and it's a whole new world (sorry, I meant "scene").
Fabulous planning and balance of scenes and ops.
Thank you.
Is the section highlighted (in teal?) between 15th and Stephen A Green open or covered?
Not sure what you mean by this. You mean the el? It will look sort of like this reference, with the portion marked "16th street el stop" modeled after the stop in the center of the image:
(http://www.jerseycityindustrial.net/images/hist_el1.jpg)
And have you decided about the height of the Terminal Cold Storage at center-bottom?
Seems like tall would make more brick canyon & viewblock but a low (1-story or even "open" industry) would allow a better frame of the back of the tenements and allow the eye to take in everything from Spano Service through the X-ing shanty to the active track disappearing down under the EL left after the Rapid Transport Co.
Terminal Cold Storage is already built. It's tall-ish, but about all it blocks is the backs of the tenements.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3321.jpg)
However, Spano's is very low, allowing a view down the tracks through the brick canyon.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3322.jpg)
Also, it's a tabletop layout, so it can be viewed from any side/angle; it has no "front" or "back."
And are the catenary wires active or dummy? :D
Funny guy.
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Was being ironic about the coal dump. :trollface:
[Still happens today, too: when I lived in Bejiing one day in mid-November a big truck rolled up in front of my apartment and dumped a tall mountain of coal right on the sidewalk/street for us to step around/over and for the dudes who worked in the neighborhood heating plant--one per block--to shovel into storage. November 15th we could turn on our steam-radiators]
The elevated station will look cool.
I was looking at the space top left between where 15th crosses over the lower tracks (where it's labeled "Newstand") and the left edge of Steven A. Green.
I could have sworn yesterday that area was boardered with your elevation line (bluegrey slate color?), but now I see that it's just indicating the track disappearing into the tunnel under Green.
Forgot that there's no permanent backdrop: definitely will be a fun layout to walk around and peer into nooks and crannies.
Perhaps even see an operating layout inside one of the tenement windows? :D
(Just to pack in more trains)
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Perhaps even see an operating layout inside one of the tenement windows? :D
How big (or, more appropriately, small) would N scale N scale be? I'd do the math, but my brain hurts this morning. :facepalm:
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I was looking at the space top left between where 15th crosses over the lower tracks (where it's labeled "Newstand") and the left edge of Steven A. Green.
I could have sworn yesterday that area was boardered with your elevation line (bluegrey slate color?), but now I see that it's just indicating the track disappearing into the tunnel under Green.
The blue-grey lines indicate stone walls, but they kind of blended together too much, so I pulled them back from the bridge just a bit so that the bridge stood out more.
How big (or, more appropriately, small) would N scale N scale be? I'd do the math, but my brain hurts this morning. :facepalm:
25,600:1. Or, just a little bigger than this: http://jamesriverbranch.net/detail_16.htm
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The latest version of the layout is really remarkable. I was a bit indifferent to this original concept and layout, but as you have refined it, I think it has become one of your best. Everything just seems to fit perfectly.
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The latest version of the layout is really remarkable. I was a bit indifferent to this original concept and layout, but as you have refined it, I think it has become one of your best. Everything just seems to fit perfectly.
Thank you. I have had similar feelings about it. Initially it was just an enthusiastic "get some trains running in a minimal space as quickly as possible while everything else is packed away" project, but as it's developed, I've been taking it more seriously. I'm still gung-ho about the Jersey City Industrial--maybe even more so, now that its setting has been redefined--but the HMR is becoming more interesting. Also, research has helped quite a lot; even though the layout is still mostly fantasy, virtually everything on it is based on something real, which I feel helps to make it a bit more believable.
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25,600:1. Or, just a little bigger than this: http://jamesriverbranch.net/detail_16.htm
I love those videos imbedded in your blog, DKS, but the links seem to be broken this morning. I'm getting, "An error occurred, please try again later."
DFF
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I love those videos imbedded in your blog, DKS, but the links seem to be broken this morning. I'm getting, "An error occurred, please try again later."
I closed my YouTube account, so all of the vids are gone. I'm re-uploading them to Vimeo, but that'll take some time.
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25,600:1. Or, just a little bigger than this: http://jamesriverbranch.net/detail_16.htm
Then there WILL be an operatng NN-scale layout in Hoboken. Cool.
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Then there WILL be an operatng NN-scale layout in Hoboken. Cool.
I wish... but mass-produced N scale wasn't around in the 30s or 40s...
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(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr_r3.jpg)
Soooo... does this mean you'll be doing some boxcabs? (http://www.nscale.net/forums/mysmiliesvb/mysmilie_527.gif)
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5468/9506949920_7033c3ffa9_z.jpg)
And you know, Chris did make up some nice templates to get these etched...
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QCx8Zg1pgMM/TmpKN0Y4uvI/AAAAAAAAIOE/-jEIyToUdkE/s800/IMG_0825.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-oQvUgATsbW4/Tmn3Ec8mr_I/AAAAAAAAINU/W5pLqaWHwEA/s800/IMG_0823.jpg)
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Number 500 does beg to be modeled, but it is a different type than what I drew. And it might possibly be shorter too. Anyone with drawings?
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Terminal Cold Storage is already built. It's tall-ish, but about all it blocks is the backs of the tenements.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3321.jpg)
If I may, is there a prototype for the brick cold-storage building with all those windows? I can't recall seeing many real-world cold-storage buildings that don't have solid walls.
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If I may, is there a prototype for the brick cold-storage building with all those windows? I can't recall seeing many real-world cold-storage buildings that don't have solid walls.
Here ya go!
(http://davidksmith.com/images/cold_store.jpg)
Oh, and then there's these--
(http://davidksmith.com/images/richmond.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/provincetown.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/kansas_city.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/armour.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/cloverleaf.jpg)
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Here ya go!
(http://davidksmith.com/images/cold_store.jpg)
I dont know i only see 8 windows :facepalm: :facepalm:.
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Fine, I'll fill all the rest of them in... :trollface:
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Fair enough. I guess it's just a Philly thing...
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Philadelphia+Warehousing+%26+Cold+Storage&ll=39.959894,-75.138564&spn=0.001558,0.002642&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&fb=1&gl=us&hq=phila+warehouse+and+cold+storage&cid=6303971890513306435&t=h&z=19
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/sean121982/QCCold1_zpsd1d597dd.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/sean121982/media/QCCold1_zpsd1d597dd.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/sean121982/berks3-31-45b_zpsc9714f78.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/sean121982/media/berks3-31-45b_zpsc9714f78.jpg.html)
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b198/sean121982/berks3-31-45a_zpsee02a4d5.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/sean121982/media/berks3-31-45a_zpsee02a4d5.jpg.html)
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Loving this layout and the changes that make it more operational, also loving all the historical photos!
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You could always add an underground subway . . . :D
Tim
THIS!!
Really throw a curve ball, and use this as rolling stock:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/293957/nt95dmp-1-148-95-tube-stock-driving-motor-powered.html?li=search-results&materialId=61
I already have 1/2 the consist. :D
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Just realized I have this book:
http://www.arcadiapublishing.com/9780738509662/Railroads-of-Hoboken-and-Jersey-City
Flipped through it and only one single photo mention of the HMR.
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You could always add an underground subway . . .
Weren't none in the JC area.
Just realized I have this book:
http://www.arcadiapublishing.com/9780738509662/Railroads-of-Hoboken-and-Jersey-City
Flipped through it and only one single photo mention of the HMR.
I know, I have that book and it was quite a disappointment. This book (http://www.amazon.com/Shortlines-Industrial-Railroads-New-Jersey/dp/1891402099), on the other hand, is a gold mine of information on the HMR.
Fair enough. I guess it's just a Philly thing...
No, JC and Hoboken had solid-walled cold storage buildings, too. Example:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/cold_store2.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/cold_store2a.jpg)
It's just I'd already built the model to serve as some nameless industry, and when I came across the reference photo of the windowed cold store in Hoboken (which bore a passing resemblance of the front wall, at least), it finally got named. Anyway, all of the scrutiny has me thinking of either repurposing the building, or rebuilding it.
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At this point DKS could go either way with the cold storage building. If you were to change its appearance,
How about this idea maybe filling in only the lower level windows of the building, that are close to track side?
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How about this idea maybe filling in only the lower level windows of the building, that are close to track side?
I was just thinking the same thing.
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Dave,
I'm finding a LOT of historical photos of cold storage facilities with lots of windows, like this one...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/46/Digbeth_Cold_Storage.JPG)
I'll bet those lower windows were bricked over at some later date.
Although modern facilities use totally different construction back in the day they had to have windows for light. These buildings were built a long time ago and electric lighting was an option. I found this floor plan of an ice making plant from "Ice and Refrigeration Illustrated" 1891..
(http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.104876399;seq=41;width=680)
You can see the storage units are internal and similar to modern walkin refrigerators. It didn't matter how many windows there were...
(http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.104876399;seq=49;width=680)
Steam powered compressors? Gas refrigerators? There is a prototype for everything, including cold storage buildings with lots of windows.
(http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/imgsrv/image?id=chi.104876399;seq=9;width=680)
The entire issue can be read or downloaded here...
http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.104876399;view=1up;seq=9 (http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=chi.104876399;view=1up;seq=9)
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I had this one on the SIB. Loosely based off the bricked up windows on a few of the sides of Worcester Cold Storage (RIP W6)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-RvCUTaiDVH4/USlQS4UfPQI/AAAAAAAAvfM/dWWFK64JKgU/s800/20130223_182617.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PAaw4qoYKk0/UP4TeO7om1I/AAAAAAAAvS0/867ZD8pii4I/s800/2013-01-21_23-13-30_140.jpg)
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Thanks Good looking Ian!
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So many prospects possible with this. A crowded urban scene is great when you can crowd it really full -- compress a spaghetti bowl tight enough and it doesn't look like a spaghetti bowl anymore, but something completely different.
You have many building clusters and street scenes, and track passing through them, but have you considered a "railroad only" scene, a small zone where it seems like the RR is by itself though buried in the middle of a metropolis? What I'm thinking about is that area at the bottom of the layout plan, the depressed track running beneath Hudson Oil to the tail track/road. Daylighting that section and continuing the retaining wall to the right to meet a tunnel (or viaduct) entrance just before the tail track crosses the street would give that "isolated in the crowd" basic scene of just a single track, maybe a speeder shed or crew shack, telephone box on a pole,a stairway to street level, and open ground (with miscellaneous junk) around the track. Basically it'd have the same elements as a section of single track out in the sticks. This scene would be a cutaway view, with the edge of the layout being where the other retaining wall would be. Being below street level would give that isolated area impression, yet still have the whole scene fit in and be part of the entire layout. Plus you'd have one of those passing track switches out in the open instead of hidden. Also the point of view looking up from this low point at the edge toward the center of the layout would look pretty neat.
Also, have you plans to include any wooden structures on the layout? Your historical photos show some here and there.
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So many prospects possible with this. A crowded urban scene is great when you can crowd it really full -- compress a spaghetti bowl tight enough and it doesn't look like a spaghetti bowl anymore, but something completely different.
You have many building clusters and street scenes, and track passing through them, but have you considered a "railroad only" scene, a small zone where it seems like the RR is by itself though buried in the middle of a metropolis? What I'm thinking about is that area at the bottom of the layout plan, the depressed track running beneath Hudson Oil to the tail track/road. Daylighting that section and continuing the retaining wall to the right to meet a tunnel (or viaduct) entrance just before the tail track crosses the street would give that "isolated in the crowd" basic scene of just a single track, maybe a speeder shed or crew shack, telephone box on a pole,a stairway to street level, and open ground (with miscellaneous junk) around the track. Basically it'd have the same elements as a section of single track out in the sticks. This scene would be a cutaway view, with the edge of the layout being where the other retaining wall would be. Being below street level would give that isolated area impression, yet still have the whole scene fit in and be part of the entire layout. Plus you'd have one of those passing track switches out in the open instead of hidden. Also the point of view looking up from this low point at the edge toward the center of the layout would look pretty neat.
Also, have you plans to include any wooden structures on the layout? Your historical photos show some here and there.
As it happens, the first version of the plan (http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr.jpg) had the lower track exposed all the way to the right corner, where the switchback tail crossed over it on a bridge before it ducked into a tunnel. I really liked that arrangement; however, as I began building the layout this way, it became (to my eye) awkward-looking. In addition to requiring an overly-long stretch of retaining wall, it had the effect of rendering the remaining part of the town above as something of an "island," which consequently reinforced the feeling of it being a tiny layout, rather than a slice of a larger world. I think the stretch of lower track that remains visible is enough to serve the purpose you describe. As to your other question, yes; I have plans for a couple of wooden structures.
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I like the "slice of real world" comment, that's how I've tried to build a couple of layouts. Since you referred me to the original plan, I see how you've reinforced that "slice" idea by gradually evolving the plan from a mishmash of streets and buildings going every which way to a uniform, big city core grid pattern (except for the tracks of course) - just like somebody chopped out a part of a big city. So when and how are you going to finish that evolution?
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I like the "slice of real world" comment, that's how I've tried to build a couple of layouts. Since you referred me to the original plan, I see how you've reinforced that "slice" idea by gradually evolving the plan from a mishmash of streets and buildings going every which way to a uniform, big city core grid pattern (except for the tracks of course) - just like somebody chopped out a part of a big city. So when and how are you going to finish that evolution?
When: as of this writing, the track is laid, the streets are locked in, and all but a couple of the buildings have been chosen and started. How: it begins with plans in AnyRail. When I feel as though I'm ready to give things a try, I'll lay the track, although I've done this twice after having a sleepy brainstorm on how to improve the plan. Then I'll mark out streets with a pencil and begin mocking up buildings. I had all of the buildings chosen and started prior to the track plan change; afterward, the majority of buildings had to be altered or replaced.
Choosing structures is the hardest step, because what I envision in my mind doesn't always work in real life, so I may go through a number of iterations before I'm satisfied. For instance, I was going to have two large downtown buildings dominate the center of the plan. However, this didn't work, because there wasn't enough variation in structure "granularity" for the area to look as though it had grown organically, the way real cities evolve. So I replaced the two big buildings with five smaller ones, and now that area works much better.
There may be more changes to come, but it's unlikely anything major will happen from here on out. I'll post pics of the layout's current state shortly.
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Here's a quick update. Most of the revised buildings have been started, and the few remaining that haven't been started have been designed. (Thankfully the three main industries needed no modification.) An overview of the layout offers a sense of the changes made:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3367x.jpg)
At the top left corner of this view is Lehigh Coal; this will be one of two wooden structures, the other one being a small industry on the other side of the tracks from Hudson Oil, which is roughly top center.
The most significant adjustment to the arrangement of structures, as mentioned, was to replace the two large central buildings with five smaller ones:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3368.jpg)
In the background can be seen, from left to right, the redesigned cold storage building, the gas station (in its third and final home), and Hudson Oil.
Elsewhere, after several revisions, this industry came together much better after moving the gas station away:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3370.jpg)
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You get a big thumbs up from me. This is coming along nicely.
If you get the chance, I 'd like to see a lower angled picture that shows the whole layout, giving a perspective of how your grades are coming together.
Thanks,
DFF
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Here you go, Dave.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3372.jpg)
Bear in mind, appearances are deceiving. The lower grade, rising from left to right, is <5%, but it looks steeper because the track directly above it is rising (at <2%) in the opposite direction.
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That looks great. I'm really enjoying your layout, because I spent a fair amount of time in Hoboken when my brother and his wife lived there a little more than ten years ago. They lived on Garden Street, practically around the corner from the area you're modeling, where there was condominiums going up, if I remember correctly. I recall jogging in Hoboken and finding rails still in the streets in places around the station and along Frank Sinatra Drive.
DFF
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I'm really looking forward to watching this come together; the overall shots are just fantastic, but I have a feeling the little details are just going to make this layout pop
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Have you test run some stuff on the track to make sure the things you plan on running can handle the grades?
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Have you test run some stuff on the track to make sure the things you plan on running can handle the grades?
Nope! I'm living dangerously!
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A locomotive and two to three cars will have no problem on a 5% climb.
DFF
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No offense; I was only wondering why you broke the logic of your layout pattern by putting the upper right corner at a different angle than all the rest of the layout. This especially because you've said many times layout designers need to get away from aligning their track and buildings with the straight edges of the layout.
On a philosophical note, the common modeler complaint is in our little worlds we have to put curves all over the place where real RRs run straight through. Here, in the case of the Elevated, which is not powered, the track could actually run straight as an arrow like in real life but you deliberately put a curve in it.
I'm not faulting any of this. But I like to know why a planner did this or that thing. Usually they have a practical reason; sometimes it's "for the hell of it". Just wondering if you'd like to share your planning thought process.
Also, the trolley track is not dummy, but completely Unitrack?
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I am liking the layout so far. The 3 track section where its going up and down looks odd to me right now and I'm not that into it. But, I am certain that as it comes along it will make sense.
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While it's true that running straight tracks at an angle to the layout edges adds interest, on occasion, it can create design issues; this was the case for the track at the 90-degree crossing. Had I run it on an angle, three things would have happened: first, I would have lost siding space for one or two cars; second, the two tall structures would be very awkward to build; and third, I wouldn't be able to use the mirror trick under the skywalk (or it would not have worked as well).
As for the elevated lines, they did run straight--where they could; there were all kinds of curves and zigzags and dips and rises in places, since it can only run straight where there are no obstructions. Adding a bend in the el on the layout did several things: first, it followed a realistic and sensible path--that is, the el could not run straight owing to the geometry of the streets and buildings. The bend added interest, since dead straight is just a bit boring. It created the illusion of a longer run: unbroken straight lines on a layout look shorter than lines broken up by curves. And it prevented a "see-through tunnel": when one looks down either end of the el, one cannot see the other end; one can only see buildings. This trick adds considerable visual depth to a small layout.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/el_7.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/el_8.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/el_9.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/el_10.jpg)
The elevated track is Atlas Code 55; all other track, including the ground trolley, is Unitrack. The el and trolley are both built for appearance only.
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Ah, the mirror trick. I didn't notice it until now.
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De, did you post here somewhere what track parts you used, radii, etc?
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The elevated track is Atlas Code 55; all other track, including the ground trolley, is Unitrack. The el and trolley are both built for appearance only.
Aw, man. We wanted to see how you were going to pull off building the el with Unitrack. :trollface:
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How did you modify the 90 degree crossings? Or are the straight legs removable?
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De, did you post here somewhere what track parts you used, radii, etc?
No, but I can.
How did you modify the 90 degree crossings? Or are the straight legs removable?
The legs are removable. I did have to make one custom track part: a straight piece 1/2-inch long that fits between the two crossings.
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20010. Straight 7.32" 7
20020. Straight 4.88" 5
20030. Straight 2.52" 1
20040. Straight 2.44" 1
20070. Straight 1.79" 1
20071. Straight 1.14" 2
20100. Curve radius 9.8", angle 45º 5
20101. Curve radius 9.8", angle 15º 6
20110. Curve radius 11.1", angle 45º 7
20111. Curve radius 11.1", angle 15º 4
20160. Curve radius 18.94", angle 15º 6
20170. Curve radius 8.5", angle 45º 3
20171. Curve radius 8.5", angle 15º 3
20172. Curve radius 7.2", angle 45º 2
20220. Left turnout 4.96" 3
20221. Right turnout 4.96" 5
20222. Wye turnout 4.96" 3
20320. Crossing 1.3". 90º 2
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I assume the 19"R curve was for the trolley line.
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I assume the 19"R curve was for the trolley line.
?
Well, yes, part of it. 19" curves are used in several places, and a portion of the trolley line is 8.5" radius.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6bpx.jpg)
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Thanks for the complete plan w/ part numbers! I'm sure others will be interested in this too.
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Hmmmm .... I'm building this per your part number layout plan but the RH side of my oval is narrower than the LH side. What am I doing wrong?
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Does Willow Street go "West" past 16th, to the tracks? I'm thinking that dead-end under the "L" is a good place for truck loading for the two buildings on either side. Looks perfect for one of those grungy, dead-end streets under the "L" - trash, uneven brick paving, maybe a derelict vehicle.
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Does Willow Street go "West" past 16th, to the tracks? I'm thinking that dead-end under the "L" is a good place for truck loading for the two buildings on either side. Looks perfect for one of those grungy, dead-end streets under the "L" - trash, uneven brick paving, maybe a derelict vehicle.
As it happens, that's exactly what is planned for that spot, inspired in part by this image:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/freight_ref.jpg)
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If one decided to expand this layout with another section, where would be a good place to connect? This question not just for Dave but anybody who has an idea.
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If one decided to expand this layout with another section, where would be a good place to connect? This question not just for Dave but anybody who has an idea.
Either of the two tracks coming off the top right corner would probably be easiest.
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A bit more progress on the Hoboken Manufacturers.
Got four tenements under way for the corner where the el starts dropping down to street level.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3379.jpg)
On the opposite corner, replaced the DPM corner building with a firehouse.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3381.jpg)
And, installed and painted the retaining walls for the end curves/grades.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3375.jpg)
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If one decided to expand this layout with another section, where would be a good place to connect?
If it was me, I'd do something like this:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6x.jpg)
The loop offers additional options for operations, and the extended passing siding allows longer trains, which would be needed to support the additional industries.
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...replaced the DPM corner building with a firehouse....
That's a sweet looking firehouse front...is that something commercially available or something you manufactured?
Jeff
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That's a sweet looking firehouse front...is that something commercially available or something you manufactured?
https://www.republiclocomotiveworks.com/show_item.php?ID=357
OOP, I'm afraid...
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I was gonna say looks like it's from Twin Whistle, but I just looked them up and they only make kits in Z HO S and O scales :?
http://twinwhistle.com/
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If it was me, I'd do something like this:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/hmr6x.jpg)
The loop offers additional options for operations, and the extended passing siding allows longer trains, which would be needed to support the additional industries.
An NZT make it yourself kit like the Scenic ridge and add-ons by WS!
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And, installed and painted the retaining walls for the end curves/grades.
Are those the flexible Chooch walls?
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An NZT make it yourself kit like the Scenic ridge and add-ons by WS!
Funny! I also did this simpler single-level variation of the HMR for a fellow on TB:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/2x3_7x.jpg)
Are those the flexible Chooch walls?
Nope, they're the old (first-generation) urethane castings.
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Some headway with structures--in color!
Tenements:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3416.jpg)
Cold storage:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3414.jpg)
The OTT brick mortar effect will be toned down with weathering.
Leather factory:
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3412.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3413.jpg)
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Nice touch painting the ground floor of the brick Leather building in Oxide Red. Reminds me of modern era brick buildings "buffing" out graffiti. I'm sure it happened in the steam era too, but I must say it's quite a nice touch.
Also, pleasant and realistic trim colors for the windows.
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Nice touch painting the ground floor of the brick Leather building in Oxide Red. Reminds me of modern era brick buildings "buffing" out graffiti. I'm sure it happened in the steam era too, but I must say it's quite a nice touch.
Also, pleasant and realistic trim colors for the windows.
Thanks. It is curious how a practice of painting just the first story of a brick building back then looks like graffiti control today. And the colors chosen then were sometimes quite vibrant.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/color_sample3.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/color_sample2.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/color_sample1.jpg)
The door and trim color is one commonly used at the time, and the signage was inspired by Neumann Leathers, a large landmark industry in Hoboken.
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David,what did you use for the leather factory?It looks very useful for a large plant I need for the Onandaga Sub.
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[sarcastic] Good news, DKS! You can place the layout outside tonight and get free snow! [/sarcastic] :x
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David,what did you use for the leather factory?It looks very useful for a large plant I need for the Onandaga Sub.
It's bashed from the back walls of DPM's Reed Books kits (three-story walls) and Erik's Emporium kits (two story walls), four kits each. Same combination that I used for the American Box Company (http://www.jerseycityindustrial.net/build_8.htm) on the JCIR.
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[sarcastic] Good news, DKS! You can place the layout outside tonight and get free snow! [/sarcastic] :x
But the flakes would be out of scale! :D That just wouldn't do on DKS' layout.
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Thanks for the info David,it will come in handy,
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You must buy those scenic ridge building sets in bulk.
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The 3 track section where its going up and down looks odd to me right now and I'm not that into it.
Better?
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3423.jpg)
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Holy crap! I get to be the first to say, "Holy crap, that looks incredible!"
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Hot Damn! (or should I say "Cool")
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Won't that frosting attract ants? :trollface:
Looks very groovy.
Can't wait to see it dirtied up!
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I said "Holy crap" and then scrolled down and Dave beat me to it. :D
That looks great!
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I'll change it up.
"Holy crap in a hat!"
I want to know exactly how you do your snow process, as I have quite a bit of that planned for my layout.
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How do you keep the marker lines from bleeding through?
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I want to know exactly how you do your snow process, as I have quite a bit of that planned for my layout.
I start with a base layer of untinted Sculptamold to get the basic contours down. For pristine undisturbed show, I then apply a thin layer of Smooth-On DuoMatrix (a gypsum/polymer hybrid sculpting material). For plowed or otherwise disturbed snow, I use more Sculptamold, which I leave lumpy. Next, a few coats of gesso to make everything pure white. Finally, a couple coats of Liquitex Sand Gel (a translucent semi-gloss medium loaded with ultra-fine sand) which makes it glisten subtly.
I arrived at the above recipe after an awful lot of experimenting--so much so that the snow in this scene wound up deeper than I'd planned. It's also very hard to photograph the glistening effect, so it tends to be a little better-looking in person. I'm still not totally happy with things, but it's getting pretty close now. Haven't cleaned the rails yet, but I've cleaned and tested them after applying each layer of material, so there's not a lot of work to do on them.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3421.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3419.jpg)
Can't wait to see it dirtied up!
Most of what's in these images will be left clean; the dirty stuff will be along the streets.
How do you keep the marker lines from bleeding through?
They couldn't possibly bleed after all of the crap I pile on top of them.
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That looks a !@#$load better than what's out my front door. AWESOME! 8)
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It looks hawt! Or should I say, cold....
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Holy crap all over again :drool:
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Most of what's in these images will be left clean; the dirty stuff will be along the streets.
Wouldn't there be some filth from locomotive sand? I would imagine that adhesion would be problematic in a 1:1 environment.
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Does the retaining wall need some icicles hanging down where some snow has melted?
Snow looks colder than the stuff outside my door that fell today.
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David that looks great. Keep up the good work.
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Wouldn't there be some filth from locomotive sand? I would imagine that adhesion would be problematic in a 1:1 environment.
Yeah, I'll probably play with this effect a little bit. I just want to go easy on the effects; I've learned already that it's way too easy to go overboard.
Does the retaining wall need some icicles hanging down where some snow has melted?
Actually, it has some--they just don't photograph very well.
David that looks great. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, glad you guys like it. I'm still not happy with it--wish I could start over. Oh well.
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Holy crud!!! David just reminded me... I hate winter. (Yer makin' it look too believable.)
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Grade crossing with slush-filled flangeways (yes, rolling stock runs through them just fine). Not dirty enough yet, though.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3426.jpg)
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:o wwwoooowwwww :o
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Well, as I'd hinted earlier, I haven't been totally happy with my snow. It's hard to articulate what was wrong with it; it's as if it was saying, "I'm supposed to be snow," as opposed to "I am snow." Perhaps a bit too zen-like for some, but the subtle distinction has been nagging at me. So, with no lack of reference material, I decided to take a drive. I learned quite a lot, because in the absence of the real thing, we sometimes make incorrect assumptions. The first thing that I noticed is that, except under very specific and rare circumstances, snow is dead flat. It also doesn't glisten as much as it might in our mind's eye, and only then when the light is just right. And the only time it's glossy is when it's mostly melted and turned to slush. Additionally, it exhibits a fascinating paradox of being translucent yet quite opaque--even a fraction of an inch of snow completely obscures whatever is underneath, even when it's pitch black.
I figured the flat/translucent combination might be the most difficult effect to achieve, especially as the dead flat gesso I'd applied earlier looked just like flat white paint instead of snow. So while I was out on the road, I decided to stop in at the local Michael's. There I found what I felt might be the answer: Liquitex Ultra-Matte Gel. When I returned home, I started applying it; the first coat looked promising, so I applied another, and another... and after about five or six coats, the model snow started to look more like snow and less like a flawed artistic interpretation of snow. Ironically, the issue of snow dirtied by passing trains was forced upon me: the nickel silver rails turned the gel to an odd shade of blue-green, which didn't look like anything that related to real life. So I scraped away the greenish goo and brushed on some powdered chalk. The final effect isn't bad, but I confess I preferred seeing the rails peeking through unsullied snow drifts. Such is life.
Again, it's not 100%, but it's closer than it was. Unfortunately, it's now even harder to photograph than before, as the translucency disappears on the other side of the lens.
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3427.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3431.jpg)
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That's looking better DKS.
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I think after this winter, most of us would prefer that you change your theme to maybe a beach or something.
Looks good. Makes my feet cold just to look at it. The dirty snow between the rails looks spot on to my eye.
Lee
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Looks good to me, too. By the way, how do you apply the snow without leaving tool marks? The snow piles look very natural. Kudos!
DFF
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By the way, how do you apply the snow without leaving tool marks? The snow piles look very natural.
That's just Sculptamold. I plop small globs of it in place with a small spatula, then just sort of tease it where I need to. It's "plowed" off the rails with my fingers. For the really smooth, undisturbed snow, I spread a layer of DuoMatrix, a Smooth-On sculpting product, over the Sculptamold.
So, it's Sculptamold + Smooth-On DuoMatrix and/or more Sculptamold + 2-3 coats of gesso + 4-5 coats of Liquitex Ultra-Matte Gel.
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As the Inuit know, snow is not just snow. What type of snow are you aiming for: fresh, a few days old, aged, melted, etc.? The look will reflect that as snow begins to change the moment it starts to accumulate.
I think you have done a tremendous job. My sense is that you have an aged snowpack, one that has sat on the ground a few days, maybe melted a bit, so that the edges are rounded and the piles smoothed. Plowed up areas are not sharply defined, and some dirt is starting to melt out preferentially. There is always dirt in snow, so if it has aged, then almost all of the snow would show some dirt coming through, and I do see some areas that seem almost too white.
Snow also has a hint of blue in it some times, which is an effect that is hard to capture, as it is not uniform because of light transmission. A very subtle wash of blue might give some depth in shaded areas. Like a drop of blue in a bottle of water kind of dilution.
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That looks amazing.
As the Inuit know, snow is not just snow.
Is that why they have 23 words for it?
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And yet, nothing that describes yellow snow!
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My sense is that you have an aged snowpack, one that has sat on the ground a few days, maybe melted a bit, so that the edges are rounded and the piles smoothed. Plowed up areas are not sharply defined, and some dirt is starting to melt out preferentially.
Well, if that is the sense you are getting, then I can claim success. That is exactly the type of snow I was after--whichever of the 23 that may be. I had thought about a blue tint, but I am a little leery of monkeying around much more with what I have; I fear losing the effect I've finally achieved.
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Well, if that is the sense you are getting, then I can claim success. That is exactly the type of snow I was after--whichever of the 23 that may be. I had thought about a blue tint, but I am a little leery of monkeying around much more with what I have; I fear losing the effect I've finally achieved.
If memory serves me, the blue tint is caused by reflection off of ice beneath packed wet snow. So limit that blue to the deep stuff. Actually, there's a lot of deep stuff around here...
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Now that I know that school is open 2-hours late tomorrow (better than closed anyway), looking at your very realistic snow both makes me excited and simultaneously angry. That must mean you nailed it!
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With this nasty Winter sticking around for way too long (n New England), I think that I will appreciate this layout much more in the middle of the hazy, hot, and humid July! :D
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Is that why they have 23 words for it?
Any skier can come up with at least a dozen on demand
Powder
Packed powder
Hard pack
Slush
Sugar
Mashed potatoes
Lake effect
Corduroy (admittedly not naturally occurring)
Chattery
Choppy
Refrozen
Drift
I'm sure there are plenty more.
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Any skier can come up with at least a dozen on demand
Powder
Packed powder
Hard pack
Slush
Sugar
Mashed potatoes
Lake effect
Corduroy (admittedly not naturally occurring)
Chattery
Choppy
Refrozen
Drift
I'm sure there are plenty more.
You forgot corn and washboard.
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(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3427.jpg)
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3431.jpg)
I just looked out side at the 12 foot high snow banks along my driveway and i think yours looks great.
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You forgot corn and washboard.
You both overlooked the infamous Cascade Concrete - the bane of Pacific Northwest skiiers.
Dave
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haha. Eric- you nailed most of them
Groomer(s) (groomed runs)
Pow (powder)
Pow Pow (powder)
Blower (powder)
Glue (sticky slush)
Bullet Proof (ice)
...I will bee shredding some Tahoe 'pow' tomorrow. We finally got snow out West!
David- the layout is looking incredible.
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DKS, you sure you aren't secretly John Allen?
Your execution on your snow scenes is excellent, from looking at the photographs.
Of course, you seeing it in person all the time means that you're more likely to readily see flaws.
From where I sit, it looks Excellent!
-Cody F.
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Holy Crap-hat! Friggin' amazing. Can't wait to see the street scenes.
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That is pretty good. Been running a road job the past few days and it looks really, really good Dave. Thats about what it looks like.
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I had no idea this was going to be a snowy layout!
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Y'all all left out yellow as a snow type. :facepalm:
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I had no idea this was going to be a snowy layout!
...the HMR will be 1930s in the winter... I thought that making the track snowbound would disguise the rail height and tie spacing issues.
Y'all all left out yellow as a snow type. :facepalm:
And yet, nothing that describes yellow snow!
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Well, if that is the sense you are getting, then I can claim success. That is exactly the type of snow I was after--whichever of the 23 that may be. I had thought about a blue tint, but I am a little leery of monkeying around much more with what I have; I fear losing the effect I've finally achieved.
Yeah, don't touch it. It's awesome like it is. You captured the look that's for sure.
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A subtle little detail for people to discover...
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3455.jpg)
(and no, it's not the dime...)
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There goes DKS with his huge dime; what is the diameter, like a foot? :trollface: :trollface: :trollface:
Seriously though, that is just epic DKS; having survived the snowpocalypse in the South this past winter, I can say you have defi itely got the look of snowdrifts and few days old snow
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Nice effect with the icicles!
Hmm... if you use a toothpick with thinned yellow paint you could sign your name :facepalm:
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Nice effect with the icicles!
Hmm... if you use a toothpick with thinned yellow paint you could sign your name :facepalm:
Make sure to use translucent yellow paint. Opaque yellow will not look realistic. ;) For another idea, how about some N scale steaming "Snicker bars" partially melted into snow? :D
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This this is DKS, I expect smoke from the chimneys, exhaust from the cars and steam from the sewers. :)
Jason
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Better?
(http://davidksmith.com/images/IMG_3423.jpg)
Much better. Makes sense now.
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Make sure to use translucent yellow paint. Opaque yellow will not look realistic. ;) For another idea, how about some N scale steaming "Snicker bars" partially melted into snow? :D
Tamiya makes a nice signal yellow that would work great. :D
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Hmm... if you use a toothpick with thinned yellow paint you could sign your name :facepalm:
Make sure to use translucent yellow paint. Opaque yellow will not look realistic. ;) For another idea, how about some N scale steaming "Snicker bars" partially melted into snow? :D
Tamiya makes a nice signal yellow that would work great. :D
Thank you for all of the suggestions. But in all honesty, this is not the brand of humor I'm inclined to employ. Truthfully, this is much more my style--
...I expect smoke from the chimneys, exhaust from the cars and steam from the sewers.
Just sayin'.
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^ What? No N Trak visual effects? :P
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Thank you for all of the suggestions. But in all honesty, this is not the brand of humor I'm inclined to employ. Truthfully, this is much more my style--
Just sayin'.
I'm glad to hear this. Besides, N scale "pee" would probably be invisible if scaled properly?
DFF
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This this is DKS, I expect smoke from the chimneys, exhaust from the cars and steam from the sewers. :)
Jason
I'd love to see exhaust from the cars!
I myself am more inclined for them to be idling, and for any people to be in 'resting' positions.
I find that departing from the "frozen in time" look can really pull the whole thing together as a slice of a miniature world, like at any moment one of those cars could drive away, or the man leaning on his snow-shovel could at any minute resume his arduous task.
-Cody F.
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For a small layout like this, one small fog generator could pump the effect to different locations on the layout... small tubes for car exhaust, larger ones for smoke stacks.
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I'm glad to hear this. Besides, N scale "pee" would probably be invisible if scaled properly?
DFF
You have a point: DKS would not go for out-of-scale details. :D
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Glad you're keeping your layout classy.
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Glad you're keeping your layout classy.
Thanks. IMO, pee in the snow is a notch below industries with joke names (e.g., M.T. Warehouse). Can't abide them, either.
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Thanks. IMO, pee in the snow is a notch below industries with joke names (e.g., M.T. Warehouse). Can't abide them, either.
Does MT have a warehouse or a factory? I can never keep it straight. Joe?
Some DC person needs to play off the "new and updated" jewelbox inside joke and model the DC shop the "Tiny Jewel Box," an oft butchered name on local radio ads.
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That layout looks delicious. :D
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Some DC person needs to play off the "new and updated" jewelbox inside joke and model the DC shop the "Tiny Jewel Box," an oft butchered name on local radio ads.
AHA! So I'm not the only one that thinks that when he hears those commercials. :trollface:
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All this cold weather has me wondering. How is the new NZT headquarters coming along?
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All this cold weather has me wondering. How is the new NZT headquarters coming along?
It's not. And that's why (all this cold weather). Very frustrating.