TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: Cajonpassfan on July 19, 2013, 01:39:26 PM
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The big news from Bachmann is the BIG EMMA, but somehow lost is the announcement of a new NW2... Say what? Don't we already have an excellent one from Kato?....so many other switchers to do and they pick this one..... :scared:
Otto K.
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Well MTL is doing an SW1500; and bachman already has the S-4. The Kato one is nice, but I can;t remember when the last run was released.
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I think it's because the NW2 wheelbase and trucks are the same as the S-4 (or very, very close), so it was an easy "new" model. But that, of course, begs the question why Kato didn't do an S-2 or S-4. It will be interesting to compare, however, since based on my firsthand look at the S-4 I suspect the Bachmann mechanism is narrower, and therefore possibly addresses the noted problem of Kato hoods being a little "porky".
Bottom line: we'll see.
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Well MTL is doing an SW1500; and bachman already has the S-4. The Kato one is nice, but I can;t remember when the last run was released.
I think that Kato delivered NW-2s in new schemes withing the past couple of months.
http://www.nscalesupply.com/KAt/KAT-Locomotive-NW2.html
Best wishes, Dave
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We shall see how this turns out.
The original release of the Kato NW2 had quite the interesting drive system but it is a bit finicky if it gets overloaded or one isn't generally careful with it.
Depending on the price of the Bachmann model, it might make good kitbash fodder.
-Cody F.
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I just saw the news and was just about to post a thread with the SAME title- when I saw yours.
Huh????
And it is even about the SAME phase as the Kato loco. If they were going to do one, why not the LATE phase with the sloped but not stepped roof????
Personally, this might turn out OK since the Kato loco has gear slip issues, but I would have been MORE excited if Bachmann had announced an MP15AC.
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Something looks odd to me , but I can't say for sure exactly what it is , other that the nose is glared out in the shot .
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rz7NsAL2m2c/UemEh3tDZDI/AAAAAAAAO8Y/ASDVAuZPRoc/s633/MRRNP1013_515.jpg)
Serves all the West looks too big and stuff .
Number is way off . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_NW2
And the Kato
(http://www.topslotsntrains.com/uploaded_photos/Kato-USA-176-4373-EMD-NW2-UP-1020.jpg)
Looks wise Kato wins , performance wise is yet to be known , but I ain' going to buy to find out . I'll let somebody else bite and report the tastiness of it .
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It's the fact that Bachmann's stuff has some strange quirks. Basically, with the windows and the doors.
Their windows always seem a little too big, and a little lacking on detail. The doors look really bad though, like someone milled a 3" panel gap around them all.
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I hear they're coming out with an N scale ALCO PA1 next year. :D
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(http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/images/nw2_compare.jpg)
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Something looks odd to me , but I can't say for sure exactly what it is , other that the nose is glared out in the shot .
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rz7NsAL2m2c/UemEh3tDZDI/AAAAAAAAO8Y/ASDVAuZPRoc/s633/MRRNP1013_515.jpg)
Here's a shot of the Kato unit, same ugly scheme...
(http://www.katousa.com/Zcart/images/176-4373.jpg)
Looks like the Bachmann model is just missing... details. Well, that and the cab proportions are off.
Oh wait... here's the real thing to compare both to...
(http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/6/1/7561.1052466360.jpg)
Hooray, now both N scale models of the NW2 are missing the louvers. :trollface:
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Something looks odd to me , but I can't say for sure exactly what it is , other that the nose is glared out in the shot .
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rz7NsAL2m2c/UemEh3tDZDI/AAAAAAAAO8Y/ASDVAuZPRoc/s633/MRRNP1013_515.jpg)
The problem is that it's Bachmann. They have decided to forgo the hassle of using any sort of prototype drawings and instead, take someone else's model and give it to their designer to try and copy.
Off hand, I'd say the hood may be peaked too much and the radius of the transition from the top to the side is too small (the RS-3 has this same issue).
For sure the front windows of the cab don't extend down far enough. And I can't tell if there are any latches on the top of the hood, but didn't really expect it based on their GP-7.
I'm also going to guess that the hood is fat.
Jason
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Hooray, now both N scale models of the NW2 are missing the louvers. :trollface:
It would seem they didn't all have louvers...
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/6/2/2562.1374154650.jpg
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I'm sure he was just saying that if we are going to have duplicate models, the later one could represent a different phase where louvers would be more accurate.
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David beat me to it.
There are 5 phases of NW2 and the louvers is part of it.
I still assert that they should have made the late phase.
Like this-
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/500/DSC08908revised.jpg)
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It would seem they didn't all have louvers...
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/5/6/2/2562.1374154650.jpg
What is a louver?
-Cody F.
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You know, as in, "I'm a louver, not a freighter."
Jim
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(http://whiteriverandnorthern.net/images/nw2_compare.jpg)
Looks like both Kato & Bachmann got the lettering all wrong. :facepalm:
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If they do P&LE I'll buy one :trollface:
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It would seem they didn't all have louvers...
As it's been mentioned, there were 5 'phases' of the NW-2. Phase I and II didn't have louvers.
What we're looking for is a Phase IV. It has the louvers with a 'letter board gap' towards the top (Phase III didn't have this) where most put their road name.
Phase IV were the most numerous (I have read, but not confirmed), but Phase I and II were almost identical and I don't know if the two combined had more.
Phase V went to a tapered hood instead of the stepped hood towards the cab.
Another thing about having hood louvers is you're one step closer to having a TR-2 transfer set. Early TR-2s had the stepped hood of the Phase IV but later units had the straight taper of the Phase V. The Phase V one one step before the SW7 (then onto the SW8 etc...)
Jason
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What is a louver?
-Cody F.
Those cutouts on the doors of the one NW2: http://www.google.com/search?q=louvers&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=I73pUZGqMJfK4APQwYGoDg&biw=1366&bih=598&sei=Jr3pUdeWFK2l4APojID4Bw (http://www.google.com/search?q=louvers&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&oe=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=I73pUZGqMJfK4APQwYGoDg&biw=1366&bih=598&sei=Jr3pUdeWFK2l4APojID4Bw)
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The most glaring error to me on the Bachmann model are the very noticeable frames or gaskets around the front (and probably rear) windows. That totally spoils the unique look of the prototypes, where the windows appeared to be simply installed behind the sheet metal of the cab.
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Looks like both Kato & Bachmann got the lettering all wrong. :facepalm:
Very funny :D.
Seriously, the Kato lettering looks right on to me for the early era; Bmann looks off...
Otto
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Personally, this might turn out OK since the Kato loco has gear slip issues, but I would have been MORE excited if Bachmann had announced an MP15AC.
An MP15AC in Milwaukee colours would have made my day. Even an NW2 I can get from Kato in the orange and black.
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If the mechanism lasts more than 2 months, the Bachmann will win. That seems to be the life span of an active Kato NW2.
If it's anything like their recent models, the hood will be closer to scale width so you should be able to drop your Kato shell on the Bachmann mech without too much hassle.
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If the mechanism is as good as their GE 70 Tonners I'm in for a couple in my favorite paint scheme - yellow and black with no lettering. My 70 Tonners have been in operation on my layout for 2 + years with no problems!
I don' t understand why Bachmann has not done new runs of the GE's, there are 100's of paint schemes to do.
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Hmmm, is it me or are there no handrails along the hood above the doors?
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The big news from Bachmann is the BIG EMMA, but somehow lost is the announcement of a new NW2... Say what? Don't we already have an excellent one from Kato?....so many other switchers to do and they pick this one..... :scared:
Otto K.
Otto MY sentiments exactly but may I ad, why didn't they make an improved SF 4-8-4 Northern body instead? but an NW2? I guess I will have to keep waiting.
JoeW
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Hmmm, is it me or are there no handrails along the hood above the doors?
It's looks to be there, just very shallow.
It does look like they left the grabs off the side of the hood however.
Jason
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Agreed. I think the hood handrail is there..... it's just molded on instead of free standing.
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So is that an 'All Weather' window on the Fireman's side? He probably appreciates that. :)
Jason
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Otto MY sentiments exactly but may I ad, why didn't they make an improved SF 4-8-4 Northern body instead? but an NW2? I guess I will have to keep waiting.
JoeW
They retooled the ATSF Northern about 2 years ago. Only minor changes but the tooling is fresh and crisp.
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By SkipGear;
They retooled the ATSF Northern about 2 years ago. Only minor changes but the tooling is fresh and crisp.
That's fine for looks but how does it run? I had one of the early units and it was OK at 30 scale MPH or more but forget it at anything less.
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Shouldn't the radiator area on the top of the hood go back almost to the bell? It appears to on all the prototype photos I's looked at and even on the Kato model. The Bachmann NW2 radiator (top of hood) looks short to me. I guess that makes me a "rivet counter".
Mark
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By SkipGear;
That's fine for looks but how does it run? I had one of the early units and it was OK at 30 scale MPH or more but forget it at anything less.
Pretty good actually. They will pull the paint off the walls. Adding tender pickup is still an improvement that needs to be done but other than that, mechanically they are fine. The could obviously be more detailed, it would be nice if they were geared a little lower, but still not bad for the price.
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They retooled the ATSF Northern about 2 years ago. Only minor changes but the tooling is fresh and crisp.
Tony, I don't know; I'm looking at the Bachmann website Northern photo and it looks just terrible.... smokebox front an upside down U shape... Is that the "upgraded" version?
Otto
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Tony, I don't know; I'm looking at the Bachmann website Northern photo and it looks just terrible.... smokebox front an upside down U shape... Is that the "upgraded" version?
Otto
I think Mark has photos of the new shell on his review. I seem to remember taking some for him. It is not a major redo, just fresh tooling. The overall design of the shell is the same, it just doesn't look like 70's tooling anymore and yes, the photos on Bachmann are still of the older shell.
That said, even the older shell wasn't horrible once you stripped the paint dip job off of it.....
(http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/data/2211/Over_Quarter_View.jpg) (http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/146946/title/bachmann-4-8-4-northern-2b-new-tender-and-dcc/cat/2211)
Stripped, repainted, and added a C&O tender for a stand in Greenbrier for a friend.
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Thanks Tony. I guess being a Santa Fe steam guy, and this being the ultimate in Santa Fe steam power, I still find the model clunky and wish they had started from scratch. Nice job on the Greenbriar though...
Otto K.
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Even though this is the NW2 thread (and nobody but me found the window gaskets/frames objectionable) :facepalm: I'll join the drifting, and I'll add that I also find the Northern very clunky looking. Even the refreshed and stripped/repainted shell looks like a child's toy. Sort of like those cheap TT scale Wall-Mart plastic model toys or those DelPrado "collectibles". Not only is the overall boiler shape terrible (looks like a shroud rather than a cylinder shape), the molded-on details are way too exaggerated (too thick).
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Bear in mind that the 4-8-4 Northern is still part of Bachmann's blue label (aka trainset) line. So, one shouldn't expect Spectrum level looks (or prices). FWIW, the latest version is a very solid runner and light-years ahead of any of the earlier incarnations (IMHO).
As Tony pointed out, the retooled shell is simply a cleaned up version of the old one -
(http://www.spookshow.net/files/bach484newshell2.jpg)
-Mark
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Thanks for posting that pic Mark.
I'm pretty sure the stripped one (ATSF loco) in the photo above is the old shell.
Mark
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Glad to see a painted/unlettered version.
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Thanks for posting that pic Mark.
I'm pretty sure the stripped one (ATSF loco) in the photo above is the old shell.
Mark
Yes, it is the older shell. A friend wanted the Greenbrier but at the time the Northerns were not available from Bachmann. It may have been the time between batches when they changed the tooling. The newly tooled locos come with the working knuckle coupler on the tender. I went ahead and stripped and prepped mine for him and then picked up a new one when they were available. That is when I found out about the newly tooled version. As the photo Mark posted shows, it is much crisper than the old one.
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Thanks for the Northern pics guys. Back to the NW2.... My diagrams show the NW2 truck spacing to be 6" shorter than the S4 (22' vs. 22'6") and the same 8' wheelbase trucks. The discrepancy is minuscule, I can easily live with that, but are the trucks the same?
Otto
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bump
is the NW-2 released yet?
EP
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It's out. Been some discussion of it over on Trainboard.
Jim
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It's out. Been some discussion of it over on Trainboard.
Jim
i don't freequent TB... didnt look there..
after i did, i remember why i don't.
the thread has 1 poster who posted a single review (same person who started the thread) ... then literally... 4 or 5 pages of manufacturer bashing
I was hoping for some pictoral comparisons at minimum, or a # of cars per grade type of discussion...
anyway....
I will wait for mine to arrive
just looking for the "early scoop"....
carry one :)
edited for spelling
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Actually, I believe all of the bashing was from one specific poster (over and over). Of course that never happens here on Railwire :P
-Mark
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Yes, I have read right through here, and nothing but positive comments and congratulations to Bachmann.
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the thread has 1 poster who posted a single review (same person who started the thread) ... then literally... 4 or 5 pages of manufacturer bashing
I was hoping for some pictoral comparisons at minimum, or a # of cars per grade type of discussion...
edited for spelling
I did not start it, but I did post a review of mine, which showed up on my doorstep New Year's Eve. I listed initial impressions, pro and con. I did not bash. I also listed the results of a preliminary pulling power tests and mentioned grades, curves and track types. I also did some comparison with the Kato. Mine is not yet fully broken in, so I am trying to finish that before I do more pulling power tests.
I am trying to find GF's digicam so I can post some photographs of it alone, with a train and next to the Kato. I have had to be away most of the day for the last couple of days, so I have not seen much of GF. We have other things to discuss, so I keep forgetting to ask her if she knows where her digicam is. She's asleep, now.
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Sooooo does the Kato shell fit in the Bachmann chassis? :trollface:
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I have the two Kato NW-2's in PRR paint so I'm torn between hoping I don't have any drive train problems as seems to be commonly mentioned and getting a couple of the Bachmans just in case.
BLW now has the NW-2, DD40X, GP7 and new roadnames for the 4-6-0 listed as in stock.
edit
Although the link for the GP7 page header says it's the 4-6-0... oops.
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Also I like how someone on TB said something like they must be good because they are sold out. As of that writing MBK was the only shop who even had them listed and they only had like 8 of each roadname. So if the Ford dealer has 8 Mustangs and the Chevy dealer has 100 Camaros. The Mustangs must be better because they sold out. :facepalm:
And I had to rub my eyes that the Bachmann model is priced $16 more than the Katos :o
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And I had to rub my eyes that the Bachmann model is priced $16 more than the Katos :o
If you compare apples to apples (IE decoder-equipped), the Katos have a list of $155 and the Bachmanns have a list of $139. The plain old analog Katos list for $115.
Cheers,
-Mark
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If you compare apples to apples (IE decoder-equipped), the Katos have a list of $155 and the Bachmanns have a list of $139. The plain old analog Katos list for $115.
Cheers,
-Mark
Yeah, but only one of them is based on a real locomotive :P
I was going by BLW listings of $86 for the Bachmann and $70 for the Kato. I guess my point really is that if the Bachmann model is going to be more toy-like I'd expect it to be much cheaper in price. Then again I was serious about the Bachmann chassis fitting the Kato shell.
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Sooooo does the Kato shell fit in the Bachmann chassis? :trollface:
I have yet to try to take apart mine. The hood on the Bachmann appears to be slightly longer than that on the Kato. The same applies to the walkway/platform. The width of both appears to be about the same. Mind you, these are crude, eyeball measurements. I diddun' use no calipers or even a ruler.
I would suspect that the Kato would not fit, even if you did a little work.
I did state, on the other forum, that the store in question had sold out of all of theirs, thus they must be popular. Someone else stated that they must be good. I made the observation because when this store sells most of its stock, one or two pieces of the less popular roadnames usually remain. Point conceded, they did have only eight to ten of each roadname, but that has happened before, and they have had one or two left of the less popular. The rapidity with which they were snapped up is also worth noting.
To be sure, of the four road names offered, I would consider only one of them a [somewhat less than first tier] road, the GN. I base this on what I see at shows and in stores. I see locomotives in that roadname that are otherwise long out of production and are not even widely available as NOS. The unlettered sells, in this case, because people want such a switcher for industrial or short line uses. The manufacturers consider NYC a first tier road, oddly enough. As for PRR, we are all aware of the remark made by a representative of a certain large model railroad manufacturer. There is going to be one for the Borg, but I guess that it is not out, yet. MBK never showed them and BLW lists them as reservation item. BLW did not get their NYCs, I suspect, as that is also showing reservation status. BLW is not showing sold out on PRR, GN or unlettered.
I am surprised that there is no All Tramps Sent Free.