TheRailwire
General Discussion => N and Z Scales => Topic started by: ljudice on June 22, 2013, 03:55:21 PM
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Not my stuff, but some cool things that may be of interest (including an N-scale BQ23!) All of this is 1/160th North American N-scale:
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/boxcarmodels
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And now for something COMPLETELY different:
I also found this modern Plasser production tamper from ANOTHER vendor, but unfortunately it's UK N-scale and the designer has no current plans to re-work it for 1/160:
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1052857/n-gauge-09-3x-tamper.html?li=productBox-search
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The Boxcar Models stuff looks pretty decent. What I would like to know is how the parts obtained such a nice surface finish. Or maybe I just can't see it well enough. All teh Shapeways stuff I have had done was nto worth keeping. Surface finish was hideous.
Brian
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For me it's been hit or miss - some perfect, some terrible. Until they let you select the orientation or improve
the process it is a problem.
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Speaking of "your stuff" Louis, when are you going to fix your Shapeway images and/or provide some more pics of how the products are used? Last time I looked, most of the truck beds were showing the bottom sides, which are not good sell shots.
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I picked up the BQ23-7 :)
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Speaking of "your stuff" Louis, when are you going to fix your Shapeway images and/or provide some more pics of how the products are used? Last time I looked, most of the truck beds were showing the bottom sides, which are not good sell shots.
I need to actually finish something! I've also modified the samples I've had made, so I'm not sure if they match anymore.
Let me take a look at what's showing!
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Been considering getting one of those Q cabs to build a CQ30-7....
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Somehow I was expecting that Boxcar Models was producing models of.....boxcars. :facepalm:
Oh well.
Best wishes, Dave
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Been considering getting one of those Q cabs to build a CQ30-7....
Not aware of that model .. AFAIK they only did the B version
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Not aware of that model .. AFAIK they only did the B version
Freelance! They offered the Q cab on all Dash 7's.
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I need to actually finish something! I've also modified the samples I've had made, so I'm not sure if they match anymore.
Let me take a look at what's showing!
Your tie truck body when used with NZT's used tie stacks and my new Peterbilt 377 makes for a nice piece of MOW equipment. I'll send you pics when it's finished.
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I picked up a Q cab as well. Given its slab nature, I'll be ok with a little sanding.
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Your tie truck body when used with NZT's used tie stacks and my new Peterbilt 377 makes for a nice piece of MOW equipment. I'll send you pics when it's finished.
Thanks, I'm actually building a crane for it using parts from the extra crane from the S.M. mow truck.
One of them is working on Sand Patch right in front of the Trainorders railcam this afternoon....
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I'm dealing with Shapeways right now to have a locomotive shell re-done. The surfaces had very noticeable horizontal lines and a funky texture. This is the second one I've ordered and when I ordered it I was told that they had fixed the texture issues and that the print would indeed be smooth and free of any lines. I guess someone didn't get the memo.
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I'm dealing with Shapeways right now to have a locomotive shell re-done. The surfaces had very noticeable horizontal lines and a funky texture. This is the second one I've ordered and when I ordered it I was told that they had fixed the texture issues and that the print would indeed be smooth and free of any lines. I guess someone didn't get the memo.
Ugh, I know... I'm not sure the problem can be fixed without changes in their order taking process (ie. put the lines on this side!) or their manufacturing process. I know eventually this will be perfect, but it's not there yet.
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The Surfliners look very interesting...but it doesn't sound like they are going to be a very easy car to finish, given he just indicates a single flat piece of plastic for the floor...gonna have to figure out correct truck spacing and coupler mounting...not to mention cab windows and a paint scheme. Gonna be well over $100 per car. Look Model was selling brass Sufliners for that price!
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And also this - but unfortunately it's UK N-scale and the designer has no current plans to re-work it for 1/160:
What exactly does this mean?
Joe
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I'd love to see some finished model shots of those North Shore shells. Hard to tell what level of detail there is with that clear material. If they're nice, I'd love to see a Electroliner, unless Con Cor gets off its duff and does an N scale version of their HO model.
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And also this - but unfortunately it's UK N-scale and the designer has no current plans to re-work it for 1/160:
What exactly does this mean?
Joe
Joe - British N-scale is 1/148th - while European and American N is 1/160th..... Japanese N-scale is 1/150.
This machine or something very close to it - is used on the continent and the USA/Canada, so the creator is aware of the potential market, but re-sizing it for 1/160 may involve a lot of work with clearances, wall thickness, etc...
Be aware, this only applies to my SECOND link on the Tamper - the first link is all good to go, 1/160th...
- Lou
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Oh yeah, gonna want a couple of these beauties. :D
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1087732/bq23-7-cab.html?li=productBox-search (http://www.shapeways.com/model/1087732/bq23-7-cab.html?li=productBox-search)
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Hey Fellows,
This car is running on CSX Fire Safety train.
Wow.
http://www.shapeways.com/model/945556/amtrak-horizon-coach-v1-doors.html?li=productBox-search
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3506629
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2887861
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Hi all
I am the designer of the BQ23-7
I was pointed to Railwire by somebody who had been looking at buying one but got confused whether it is 1:160 or 1:148. So I have signed up to answer some of the questions on the thread. These are my views on 3D printing.
My BQ232-7 is in 1:160 scale and will fit an atlas B23-7.
6axlepwr - The material I use is FUD which is Shapeways finest product for detail, this allows detail to 0.1mm, when I am asked how is it compared to a Kato or Atlas model I think about 90%, there are some fine lines [I do not have a measuring instrument that can measure them they are so small] on large flat surfaces these can easily be sanded off. I think the calibration of the printer and orientation in the print run can cause some minor defects.
Leggy - now that would be a nice what could have been, I always found it strange that no other railroad tried out a Q cab.
DMU fan - my reason for not putting a hole in the body of the surfliners / california cars was that some people wish to run on tight radius others not it is not hard to mount the bogie on the plasticard and position it where you wish, it was designed for using Kato bogies so the coupler comes fitted to the bogie. As for the price unfortunately that's what it is, I have been told by many people that my markup is ridiculously low and it will be doubtfull if I ever recover my costs or even have a remote thought of giving up my day job. I have a friend working on decals for both the surfliners and california cars.
Sirenworks - An electroliner is on the cards. Next couple of weeks will see 2 versions of the combine and 2 versions of the diners. I have sold 14 interurbans so far and no complaints, just requests for more versions.
ljudice - thanks for confusing everybody about the scale of my cab with your first post :lol: I agree it can be frustrating that we cannot specify orientation etc on Shapeways but considering how new the technology is I think like you that will come with time. I have tried a couple of other printer companies that allow to specify orientation and the prices were nonsense.
As a general comment if you wish your model to be as smooth as Kato or Atlas and any less will not do then you need to move on as 3D printed objects are not for you at this moment in time. But if you wish to do a little cleaning up then you can have the models you have always wanted. It seems that when somebody says Shapeways is rubbish the comment grows viral with people using hearsay and not actually holding a printed model in their hand.
Hope this has answered some of the questions so far. Pleased to answer any more.
Alexander
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Oh yeah, gonna want a couple of these beauties. :D
http://www.shapeways.com/model/1087732/bq23-7-cab.html?li=productBox-search (http://www.shapeways.com/model/1087732/bq23-7-cab.html?li=productBox-search)
I have one on order .. the cab is missing a window .. the small triangular one just in front of the three side windows .. not sure if I am going to try to fix that ..
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Hi all
I am the designer of the BQ23-7
Alexander
Alexander .. thanks for joining .. and thanks for doing the work on the BQ23-7 .. I've always had a soft spot for this ugly creature :) ... It was on my list of things to do .. design one for shapeways .. but you saved me a lot of work .. hope to see some of your modeling here ..
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Alexander -
Sorry, the scale thing applied to the second link - which is a UK guy - thought that was clear.... I've fixed my original post!
I'm hoping my post here has brought you some exposure, you have some interesting models and I wish you the best with them.
The process gets better and better and if I needed a BQ-23, I'd order yours in an instant!!!
I am thinking about your coalveyor sides. I just noticed these on the Fostoria cam the other day. Have you considered doing CSX gon extensions for tie cars?
- Lou
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John said
the cab is missing a window .. the small triangular one just in front of the three side windows .. not sure if I am going to try to fix that ..
From pictures I have seen that little window got plated over real fast.I hope you will post some pics when you get your cab.
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"This car is running on CSX Fire Safety train."
Actually, no. The cars on The Firefighters Education and Training Foundation (CSX being only one of several sponsors of the operation) are former NJT/NJDOT/EL Pullman Standard Comet I cars with lower vestibule doors. The AMTK Horizon cars were inspired by the earlier design but are a good bit different.
Hey 3rdboxcar, any chance of you posting some high resolution shots of your passenger cars? It would help folks who might be interested in deciding whether to purchase some or not. Would be glad to recommend them myself, depending on how well the cars actually look.
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Hi
John as catt said the small triangular windows on the cab sides got plated over quickly, there was also a small window below the engineers window that as far as I know got plated over even quicker, I think they got broken easily and things were striking the engineer.
If you would like a cab with all the windows in or with the side windows only or all plated over as a B unit let me know, should not be to big a job to add whatever.
Lou - no problem on the confusion, I thought the same when I read your post then realised what you meant. the coalveyor sides are still sitting in my to complete box although they have been painted and the original hoppers partially repainted, as you know there are a million things that suit 3D it's just getting round to them and I have enough on the to do list to last for ages.
jmlaboda Will post some Hi resolution images later of the Interurbans, etc, I do not have them at the moment they are at my friends who they were done for.
Alexander
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Hell, yeah! I ordered a BQ23-7 cab. I actually had inquired with a few asshats a while back to help me design this cab. Problem solved. 3rdboxcar's design meets my quality standards, and I don't mind spending a little time doing some clean up. Thanks, 3rdboxcar and welcome to The Railwire.
DFF
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Hi
John as catt said the small triangular windows on the cab sides got plated over quickly, there was also a small window below the engineers window that as far as I know got plated over even quicker, I think they got broken easily and things were striking the engineer.
If you would like a cab with all the windows in or with the side windows only or all plated over as a B unit let me know, should not be to big a job to add whatever.
Thanks for the offer, but I will just use a number (probably 3009) that doesnt have the window .. here are some shots of 3008 that I scratchbuilt out of styrene back in 2008 .. this will be a huge improvement for me .. I just put the shell into stripper .. :)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/acsxfan1/R5U9E3tiN_I/AAAAAAAACps/Wec_kCXwIR4/s400/IMG_2653.jpg)
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/acsxfan1/R5U9I3tiOAI/AAAAAAAACp0/x_0WrrmoEGo/s400/IMG_2654.jpg)
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John I would not even had attempted what you had done in styrene - well done.
Alexander
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As a general comment if you wish your model to be as smooth as Kato or Atlas and any less will not do then you need to move on as 3D printed objects are not for you at this moment in time. But if you wish to do a little cleaning up then you can have the models you have always wanted. It seems that when somebody says Shapeways is rubbish the comment grows viral with people using hearsay and not actually holding a printed model in their hand.
Alexander
Alexander, the shells I have purchased from Mark 4 Design are smooth and have no lines. While this was not always true in the beginning, it has been the case with anything I have purchased from him in last 2-3 years. Your statement concerning 3D printed objects definitely does not apply to Mark's work.
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I understand that the 3D process is still in its infancy. And, I don't mind doing a little clean-up. However, the loco shells I have ordered from Shapeways, at $50 each, have the horizontal lines and funky textures in places that can not be sanded without removing the required detail like carbody doors, battery box doors, number boards, etc. It isn't impossible to print a very good model. I've seen some and they are absolutely perfect. So, I guess it's hit and miss. Maybe Shapeways should consider the models they are asked to print and, if it isn't possible to produce one without all of the flaws, they should say so and give the purchaser the option of ordering one or not. Fifty bucks is fifty bucks. No point in purchasing a model that you can't, or won't, use.
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in my experience, I can image that larger surface items like a loco shell can result in varying qualities. I have had really good results with my trucks, and plan to keep designing more models for myself. They aren't perfect, but they are equal to if not better than some of the cast vehicles out there in my opinion. And I have printed enough so far to validate the consistency of printing. So if you guys need something to do while you wait for the quality of loco shells to improve, come find me. 8)
HuskerN
www.nscaleaddiction.blogspot.com (http://www.nscaleaddiction.blogspot.com)
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/NScaleAddict (http://www.shapeways.com/shops/NScaleAddict)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rzx_Au_ugoM/Ub0p5_9Ev7I/AAAAAAAAD9Y/Zlvqt7k4Gbo/s1600/3d+printed+items.JPG)
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And also this - but unfortunately it's UK N-scale and the designer has no current plans to re-work it for 1/160:
What exactly does this mean?
Joe
It means that it is at a scale of 1:148 and that the difference in size is so negligible that re-tolling for exact 1:160 would be a waste of time and quid.
-Cody F.
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It means that it is at a scale of 1:148 and that the difference in size is so negligible that re-tolling for exact 1:160 would be a waste of time and quid.
-Cody F.
Hmmm.... people get away with this with Japanese cars because they are smaller to start - not so sure I agree on the Plasser....
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in my experience, I can image that larger surface items like a loco shell can result in varying qualities. I have had really good results with my trucks, and plan to keep designing more models for myself. They aren't perfect, but they are equal to if not better than some of the cast vehicles out there in my opinion. And I have printed enough so far to validate the consistency of printing. So if you guys need something to do while you wait for the quality of loco shells to improve, come find me. 8)
HuskerN
www.nscaleaddiction.blogspot.com (http://www.nscaleaddiction.blogspot.com)
http://www.shapeways.com/shops/NScaleAddict (http://www.shapeways.com/shops/NScaleAddict)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Rzx_Au_ugoM/Ub0p5_9Ev7I/AAAAAAAAD9Y/Zlvqt7k4Gbo/s1600/3d+printed+items.JPG)
I can vouch for HuskerN's creations. The Shapeways items I have purchased from HuskerN under the NscaleAddict name have been excellent. I plan on purchasing many more and look forward to what he does next!
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And he's fast too. ;)
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Hmmm.... people get away with this with Japanese cars because they are smaller to start - not so sure I agree on the Plasser....
As long as you don't have two scales of the same vehicle on the layout, or at least in eye-sight of one another, it is quite alright.
It like military equipment. It is nice to have actual N scale stuff, but there isn't much, and the quality is mostly poor plus it's either poor-quality resin or cast white-metal.
By using 1:144th stuff you get the variety, the excellent level of detail, and they are injection molded models. On my list of things I'd like to do (in the feasible range) is to do WWII armaments train, and one where the equipment isn't under tarps, so i'll be going completely with 1:144th equipment.
-Cody F.
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Leggy - now that would be a nice what could have been, I always found it strange that no other railroad tried out a Q cab.
(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5465/9123038905_136915c7c6_b.jpg)
This is what I'm thinking.
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Didn't the GE electric locomotives built for the Black Mesa and Lake Powell use these cabs?
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Lou, the BM&LP's E60s are full-carbody style, not hood units with a cab.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1881470
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(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5465/9123038905_136915c7c6_b.jpg)
This is what I'm thinking.
That does look nice, good idea certainly since it was a "could have been"
Alexander
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Alexander, the shells I have purchased from Mark 4 Design are smooth and have no lines. While this was not always true in the beginning, it has been the case with anything I have purchased from him in last 2-3 years. Your statement concerning 3D printed objects definitely does not apply to Mark's work.
Hi John, I had never seen Mark4 design stuff, it says he uses prime grey, the best detail "I materialise" do prime grey in is 0.2mm which for me is too course for N scale. The stuff does look good but on the few images on his site I can still see a little banding which is less than FUD. I reckon for the BQ23-7 I could get away with 0.2 but that would not do for most other things.
Alexander
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Hi John, I had never seen Mark4 design stuff, it says he uses prime grey, the best detail "I materialise" do prime grey in is 0.2mm which for me is too course for N scale. The stuff does look good but on the few images on his site I can still see a little banding which is less than FUD. I reckon for the BQ23-7 I could get away with 0.2 but that would not do for most other things.
I'm not sure what you are reading but Mark's Prefactory Machine has a resolution of .04mm. There's nothing from Shapeways that can even come close to the detail and/or quality.
At this point, Shapeways is really only good for testing objects before you pay have to them done by someone else.
Jason
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At this point, Shapeways is really only good for testing objects before you pay have to them done by someone else.
Jason
I think that's a little harsh, and I'm not trying to defend my amateurish efforts on Shapeways.... I think there are a lot of projects where FUD or other processes can be very useful for making finished models. It's just that you have to factor in the resolution and artifact issue up front. Or model materials that are rough, like concrete and use it to your advantage....
- Lou
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I think that's a little harsh,
Not for the product I've received. Perhaps they could have been redone, but I have yet to get anything from Shapeways that I'd even consider using. Unfortunately my designs have contained small overhangs on flat surfaces (think window ledges) which seems to be a real problem for this process.
Jason
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Yeah this is not what I want:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sR3KjjYtx8w/UND6_Oy7HPI/AAAAAAAAI6s/k_PJ5nSDz-4/s800/IMG_1361.jpg)
I've seen stuff that was better, but just about everything seems to have one side that looks just like my photo.
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Yeah this is not what I want:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sR3KjjYtx8w/UND6_Oy7HPI/AAAAAAAAI6s/k_PJ5nSDz-4/s800/IMG_1361.jpg)
I've seen stuff that was better, but just about everything seems to have one side that looks just like my photo.
Yep.
Jason
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Back to the loco at hand.
Companies offered all kinds of locomotives that nobody ever bought. Cab configuration, cylinders, trucks etc.
The Q cab was offered by GE on about every loco they offered- but only these 10 sold.
However, that doesn't mean we can't have fun modeling.
I have long thought it would be pretty cool to have a BQ18-7. :D
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Yeah this is not what I want:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sR3KjjYtx8w/UND6_Oy7HPI/AAAAAAAAI6s/k_PJ5nSDz-4/s800/IMG_1361.jpg)
I've seen stuff that was better, but just about everything seems to have one side that looks just like my photo.
Hey its coated in Zimmeritt!
:D
The S.
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will that sand down?
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I'm sure it would sand down, but there is a lot of rib and rivet detail to work around. Plus lots of tight areas to get into.
This is also FUD:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P7fDDb_nJrc/T0QlKLae73I/AAAAAAAAIew/W9I6lgW1Z80/s800/IMG_1036.jpg)
Most of the outside edges are pretty smooth and the bad areas are inside. It is just like rolling the dice. I could have probably asked Shapeways to make me new EBT hoppers and tried again...
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Yeah this is not what I want:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-sR3KjjYtx8w/UND6_Oy7HPI/AAAAAAAAI6s/k_PJ5nSDz-4/s800/IMG_1361.jpg)
I've seen stuff that was better, but just about everything seems to have one side that looks just like my photo.
Maybe get a better camera...something with more megapixels to take less grainy photos. ;)
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That hopper looks like those PRR ore cars that were sprayed with foam.
My point is that there are materials that can be rendered into useful models - if they have flat surfaces that can be easily sanded - or if you can use the grain in the model itself.
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"I'm not sure what you are reading but Mark's Prefactory Machine has a resolution of .04mm. There's nothing from Shapeways that can even come close to the detail and/or quality."
With the announcement, recently, of some heavy investment (https://www.therailwire.net/forum/index.php?topic=29448.msg316795#msg316795) in Shapeways we can hope, at least, that things will yet get better, and, hopefully, a lot better. I know that there are some companies able to do better resolution (don't know their names but maybe Bryan can fill in the pieces) and with this influx of BIG BUCKS hopefully Shapeways will be able to step up the quality on what is available. While I have seen some models I possibly would be interested in the fact that the banding is so evident at times I would rather wait for someone else to come out with something better than to pop for a shell that may not be usable without a great deal of work. I have patience but do not need anything new in my life to teach me more patience.
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Or model materials that are rough, like concrete and use it to your advantage....
- Lou
You think there's much of a market for box car shells made out of concrete? :)
Jason
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Shapeways is far cheaper than investing in tooling for injection or even resin casting.
Plus, it is a great way to either make or get a hold of things that no manufacture will ever do.
Despite all the worse-case scenarios, a lot of things that Shapeways produces don't come out looking like they are heavily coated in Zimmerit. Some don't even need more than the mandatory bestine bath before they are ready for the paint shop (or at least assembly before paint).
-Cody F.
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But with a higher resolution, one can use the resulting model as the master for Resin castings.
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My point is that there are materials that can be rendered into useful models - if they have flat surfaces that can be easily sanded - or if you can use the grain in the model itself.
Depends on how you define "useful." IMO, Jason is not being harsh--I have likewise not seen much of anything other than concrete culverts from Shapeways that I'd use on my layout. Utilizing RP's design strengths unfortunately results in models that are difficult if not impossible to improve with sanding or other surface preparation. I've been working with other shops trying to leverage RP for rolling stock and structure kit production, and after investing a lot of time and money in unacceptable results, ultimately we'd have been better off beating our heads against a wall.
You get what you pay for. Shapeways is (fairly) affordable, but almost useless for anything except one-off pet projects where you can (hopefully) live with the shortcomings. Higher-end RP shops (e.g. Fineline) might produce acceptable materials, but cost an arm and a leg. So if you're after production-quality models, you're either stuck with a lot of hand-work, or paying through the nose for a master you hope can be cast (which is not always the case). Or... as we've learned the hard way, making masters using more traditional methods.
Sadly, some RP fanboys take any objective objection to RP modelwork as a personal affront. We're not trying to be insulting. RP just is simply not yet at the cost versus quality point to make it practical to produce models that rival injection quality, and for every borderline great RP project used to argue the case for RP (which often involve a lot of handwork to compensate for RP's natural flaws), there are any number of better examples done using more traditional methods. RP may yet get there; it's just not there yet.
Shapeways is far cheaper than investing in tooling for injection or even resin casting.
Cheaper than injection tooling, absolutely--and indeed, that's exactly why RP exists, not as a means of production. Cheaper than resin casting? I'm not so sure about that. For resin, all you need is one good master, which can be produced using any number of different traditional or non-traditional techniques--or any combination thereof--selected for best results as well as cost-effectiveness, then pay a fraction of the cost for each piece produced. Whereas for RP, you pay full price for every single piece you order, with zero cost savings for mass production.
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David,
It's hard for me to disagree with you, and I feel somewhat badly for always cheering on the latest Shapeways stuff... First
of all, I'm not nearly in the league of some of the designers out there and I take no offense at all with respect to the stuff
I've tried to do. My only interest was to fill in the gaps until Willmodels and Showcase came along with better stuff - which
they are doing.
I was encouraged early on by Shapeways, but frankly, since production was moved to the US it has been all downhill in terms
of the samples I've had made. I took most of my models out of the store leaving only the ones I knew could be easily fixed.
A bunch of stuff was sold, my profits maybe $30 or so - and my expenses for test models over $200.
But still, I hope people keep trying because there are some good things being made - and who knows, maybe one day they
will have a process that is consistent and inexpensive....??
- Lou
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I'm not trying to discourage anyone from experimenting with Shapeways either. If someone enjoys what's being done on Shapeways, more power to them; just don't try to pass it off as an alternative to injection--because it's not. Not yet.
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Back to the loco cab that started all this - despite knowing all the issues with Shapeways and FUD, I'm still buying one for my kit bash. The reason is simple - I"m not a draftsman, so I can't easily render plans of this particular cab. I've wanted to do one of these science i was 11 or 12 when I saw one in the wild, and Shapeways gives me the opportunity to do so far more easily then I could if I followed John's nifty example and went the styrene route. Given that no one has ever done one of these Q cabs s a foldable etched brass product (Which I totally would if I could raw the art) and that N scale doesn't have a Conon & Company to make all the one and two-off cabs parts that HO has, I think this is an elegant solution.
Could the designer go to resin casting after drawing this up? Probably, and even for relatively low cost. But we'd still be waiting for the cab, as opposed to assembling the shells.
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while you guys are having this debate, I'll go design another model that doesn't exist in N scale.... :P
seriously, we are all on the same team here. I never intended to go public with my designs, but Shapeways makes it easy to do, and I hope others benefit from my work. I really have no expectation of selling 1 or 1000 models and I feel like my own layout will benefit greatly from the work I am doing. I greatly appreciate everyone that is pursuing new technologies and methods to bring us more models. Because that is what it is all about.... making more models available in N scale regardless of how they are made. If an existing model isn't good enough, then the alternative is to wait, and wait, and wait some more. I agree that Shapeways is not the holy grail, and don't take offence to criticism about the models. I do like what I see so far, and will keep pursuing more models for myself, and share with anyone that wishes.
HuskerN
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I have a few shapeway products, Mainly half of a London underground 1997 stock and a N scale HEMMTT, and Although it's not the end all be all soultion, it is A soultion for now. and I'm pretty happy with what I got out of them
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while you guys are having this debate, I'll go design another model that doesn't exist in N scale.... :P
seriously, we are all on the same team here. I never intended to go public with my designs, but Shapeways makes it easy to do, and I hope others benefit from my work. I really have no expectation of selling 1 or 1000 models and I feel like my own layout will benefit greatly from the work I am doing. I greatly appreciate everyone that is pursuing new technologies and methods to bring us more models. Because that is what it is all about.... making more models available in N scale regardless of how they are made. If an existing model isn't good enough, then the alternative is to wait, and wait, and wait some more. I agree that Shapeways is not the holy grail, and don't take offence to criticism about the models. I do like what I see so far, and will keep pursuing more models for myself, and share with anyone that wishes.
HuskerN
Couldn't agree more...
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HuskerN, I'm curious: the photos of your printed models look pretty decent. Have you ever ended up with a printed surface of your models looking like the one shown on the hopper car?
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That Nn3 hopper in my first photo is the worst thing I have ever received from Shapeways. I have a few other items that are much better. I have some small wooden N scale 4 wheel hoppers that look pretty good.
Just sayin' wait till you get your stuff and judge for yourself. And that brings up another thing. Some of the models only show you a 3D drawing of what you are buying and of course the drawings are nice and flat.
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Depends on how you define "useful." IMO, Jason is not being harsh--I have likewise not seen much of anything other than concrete culverts from Shapeways that I'd use on my layout.
Methinks the strong point of RP using FUD is small parts. Large surfaces are difficult and such things as cars would benefit from being laid out and printed as kits. I've got a couple of projects I've been working on that will take advantage of Shapeways rough surfaces (I hope!).
However, as opposed to DKS, I have found at least one part that I am extremely happy with. I love the CB&Q 5' passenger trucks (otherwise known on the UP as "Q" trucks) which are available from Eric Cox (Panamint Models) and although the surfaces on these are not as smooth as is available on injection molded trucks, these include much detail on top and the brake hangars on the fronts and backs, which wouldn't be possible with injection molded one-piece trucks. I use these under my MTL "Wooden" cabooses (Harriman era UP CA's), my kitbashed CA-1's and my Golden West kit CA-3's & 4's. I have no idea how long I wished somebody would produce these, and I've $hit-canned all of my Bachmann Old-Timer trucks that I used before, which made my cabooses look they were on their tippy-toes cause the journal boxes were at the bottom of their brackets, like they were suspended in air with no weight on them.
Here's a photo of one of my kit-bashed CA-1's with the Panamint CB&Q 5' Passenger Trucks (Q trucks) under it...WOW...thank goodness for Shapeways and Eric!!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RL1X7phXwGA/UclVcWO60lI/AAAAAAAACOs/zvEsHjwnMqw/s0/UP%2520CA-1%2520On%2520Park%2520City%2520Branch.jpg)
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hi all
Chris33 - If Shapeways delivered that to to me or anybody that bought one of my models it would be straight back, It does not look like FUD to me.
David K Smith - just about sums it up, and I do not try to pass any of the models I have done as an alternative to injection moulding as I have stated in a previous reply.
Huskern and delamaize - totally agree, on with modelling and I am not getting drawn any more into which company produces the better what and at what price etc. etc. I want to do modelling.
As my final word on the subject of any 3D printing companies quality etc, etc - when I designed the models I have done so far they were originally for my self and some close friends but was persuaded to put them up for sale, sometimes I think it has not been worth it, I certainly will never recoup what I have spent on test prints and design time but hopefully somebody out there in N scale land will get something that they can work on.
Below is the quality I expect from Shapeways using FUD, this is an Amtrak California car, cleaned with non acetone nail varnish remover and sprayed with Tamiya fine grey primer, there has been no other work done to the model, the model is zoomed in to over 4 times real life size.
(http://members.trainorders.com/3rdboxcar/_wp_generated/wp64487add.png)
Alexander
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Here's a photo of one of my kit-bashed CA-1's with the Panamint CB&Q 5' Passenger Trucks (Q trucks) under it...WOW...thank goodness for Shapeways and Eric!!
That is one nice caboose, take that as a compliment from somebody who has not much interest in UP. :D
Alexander
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(http://members.trainorders.com/3rdboxcar/_wp_generated/wp64487add.png)
Quite nice!!! While some clean-up will still be necessary it still looks a lot better than what some have expected. Gotta ask, though, how the roof looks since there is ribbing as well as varying curves to it. How does it look?
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A friend of mine came up with a brilliant way to remove the "fuzzy" texture on these models that the solvent just wont remove. Take an old toothbrush and a dab of toothpaste and lightly scrub. I am guessing that the flat sides of that hopper would clean up well using this method, where a file or sand paper would risk taking off the detail. It's not that the model itself is rough necessarily, it just needs to be cleaned. I used a toothbrush and toothpaste on a couple truck frames and it works really well. I still have a little cleaning to do around the nooks and crannies, but this is after about 60 seconds of light scrubbing. I agree with several of you guys in the hope that 3d printing will continue to evolve. It's not perfect now, but the current quality is such that I am not hesitating at all making more models.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G9nHQRhAsWA/Ucj-zBcSNjI/AAAAAAAAD_Q/TNoPOP75wBo/s1600/clean+up+3.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UiyF2qw8p3E/Ucj-zsjjdoI/AAAAAAAAD_g/EylpVkLBEa0/s1600/clean+up+4.jpg)
HuskerN
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Interesting.
So you toss it in the Bestine to remove the wax, and then you polish it with toothpaste. Have you tried the toothpaste by itself? I would think the BQ23-7 cab would polish easily since it's mostly flat surfaces.
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the waxy residue from printing really needs a solvent to loosen and remove it. I think it would take too much scrubbing and pressure to get it to come off with just toothpaste. And with the solvent step, you just throw them in and let them soak. No effort at all.
I have been using files, sanding sticks, and soft microbrushes to remove the fuzz until my friend told me about the toothpaste. I was in a hurry to try it, so I think with a smaller brush with shorter bristles, the fuzz around the details would be easy to remove too using toothpaste, or you could really us just about any type of brush. The main point here is the toothpaste which acts as the polisher agent.
HuskerN
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...The main point here is the toothpaste which acts as the polisher agent.
Hmm... do they still make
Ipana toothpaste...?
(http://bayouline.com/o2.gif)
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Cheaper than injection tooling, absolutely--and indeed, that's exactly why RP exists, not as a means of production. Cheaper than resin casting? I'm not so sure about that. For resin, all you need is one good master, which can be produced using any number of different traditional or non-traditional techniques--or any combination thereof--selected for best results as well as cost-effectiveness, then pay a fraction of the cost for each piece produced. Whereas for RP, you pay full price for every single piece you order, with zero cost savings for mass production.
Woops, my mind was back-dating a bit there. I was thinking resin-casting using machine-milled molds.
For the average-joe's silicone mold, it is cheaper except, perhaps in the most extreme cases.
-Cody F.
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A friend of mine came up with a brilliant way to remove the "fuzzy" texture on these models that the solvent just wont remove. Take an old toothbrush and a dab of toothpaste and lightly scrub. I am guessing that the flat sides of that hopper would clean up well using this method, where a file or sand paper would risk taking off the detail. It's not that the model itself is rough necessarily, it just needs to be cleaned. I used a toothbrush and toothpaste on a couple truck frames and it works really well. I still have a little cleaning to do around the nooks and crannies, but this is after about 60 seconds of light scrubbing. I agree with several of you guys in the hope that 3d printing will continue to evolve. It's not perfect now, but the current quality is such that I am not hesitating at all making more models.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-G9nHQRhAsWA/Ucj-zBcSNjI/AAAAAAAAD_Q/TNoPOP75wBo/s1600/clean+up+3.jpg)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UiyF2qw8p3E/Ucj-zsjjdoI/AAAAAAAAD_g/EylpVkLBEa0/s1600/clean+up+4.jpg)
HuskerN
I can vouch for this method as well; I've done something similar in the past.
The softness of the "fuzzy texture" makes it much easier to deal with than one might expect. If you smooth the model after cleaning (but before priming), almost any sort of pressure, rubbing, or scraping will cause the offending fuzz to peel cleanly off. If I feel the need to crisp up corners for example (and an old toothbrush doesn't work), I'll typically use the end of a small flat bladed screw driver. One pass and the offending fuzz is usually gone.
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Great suggestions. Nice to see solutions, not complaints.
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Plus toothpaste leaves your models with a fresh scent that lasts all day!
Seriously, I have to try this, sounds like a great tip!
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So Colgate or Crest? :)
I gotta try this.
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So Colgate or Crest? :)
I gotta try this.
Pearl Drops
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Woops, my mind was back-dating a bit there. I was thinking resin-casting using machine-milled molds.
For the average-joe's silicone mold, it is cheaper except, perhaps in the most extreme cases.
-Cody F. abut I don't
Cody,
I think that I go back a bit further back than you :D but I don't recall any poured resin models using anything but some sort rubber molds. To satisfy my curiosity, could you provide any examples of resin cast models which were made in machine-milled molds?
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Using toothpaste (whe white one, not the pretty clear blue one) as a mild polishing compound has been around for decades. I didn't think that it would be abrasive enough to actually smooth out the FUD parts.
If it is, then this opens up the field to many more options. For example Novus scratch remover or even automotive rubbing or polishing compounds to mention a few, applied with a toothbrush, might work just as well or better than toothpaste.
That also makes me think that even a gentle sandblasting using a Badger Air Eraser and a very fine grit aluminum oxide abrasive might also work well. This last method was discussed in another Shapeways related thread but IIRC, was dismissed for possibly being too aggressive. But I don't know if anyone actually tried it before dismissing it.
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If it is, then this opens up the field to many more options.
Not unless those other options can be done at the kitchen sink.
I've started trying the paste with the Dremel and the small round brush that come with it. Obviously is not going to take out any stepping, but so far it has cleaned up some of the objectionable areas.
I'll have to give the non-acetone remover a try as well.
Thanks to HuskerN for the tips.
Jason
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Cody,
I think that I go back a bit further back than you :D but I don't recall any poured resin models using anything but some sort rubber molds. To satisfy my curiosity, could you provide any examples of resin cast models which were made in machine-milled molds?
I would provide photos if I could.
The only one I know of (as in: that i have seen for myself) is an N scale Police Box that is of the type used for the TARDIS for the early doctors of Doctor Who.
When you look at it, it doesn't show any difference from something cast in a rubber mold.
It is just white/cream resin, and being such the casting is a bit crude, but it is mostly due to it being old (over 20 years old) and temperature changes of two different basements having taken its toll on it.
And you do go back further than me, physically.
But figuratively, i'm quite old (over 80), but I haven't bothered to figure out exactly how old.
-Cody F.
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I'll have to give the non-acetone remover a try as well.
What might that be?
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What might that be?
Something like this I'm guessing.
(http://img3.targetimg3.com/wcsstore/TargetSAS//img/p/13/31/13317492.jpg)
Jason
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I would provide photos if I could.
The only one I know of (as in: that i have seen for myself) is an N scale Police Box that is of the type used for the TARDIS for the early doctors of Doctor Who.
When you look at it, it doesn't show any difference from something cast in a rubber mold.
It is just white/cream resin, and being such the casting is a bit crude, but it is mostly due to it being old (over 20 years old) and temperature changes of two different basements having taken its toll on it.
If it looks like a resin part made in a rubber mold, how do you know for a fact that it was made in a machines (hard?) mold?
And you do go back further than me, physically.
But figuratively, i'm quite old (over 80), but I haven't bothered to figure out exactly how old.
-Cody F.
LOL! Maybe figuratively I'm 160 years old? ;)
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What might that be?
The non-acetone nail polish remover contains Ethyl Acetate and Isopropyl Alcohol. I bought a gallon in a beauty supply store. I was surprised that one can simply purchase beauty in a store... :D
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The non-acetone nail polish remover contains Ethyl Acetate and Isopropyl Alcohol.
Yeesh, that stuff gives me a roaring headache, almost as bad as the new MEK substitute (still haven't found out what that is yet, not that I'd ever use it).
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If it looks like a resin part made in a rubber mold, how do you know for a fact that it was made in a machines (hard?) mold?
I know the maker.
He worked in the tool-and-die industry and had is own mold-making business. He would machine in N-Scale detail parts in the blank space around, for one example, a scale rendition of a new skyscraper.
The mold, and subsequent castings, were made for a client, and he cast an extra for himself.
-Cody F.
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The non-acetone nail polish remover contains Ethyl Acetate and Isopropyl Alcohol. I bought a gallon in a beauty supply store. I was surprised that one can simply purchase beauty in a store... :D
Peteski,
After looking at your photo, you need to go get your money back. :D :D
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Peteski,
After looking at your photo, you need to go get your money back. :D :D
I should have added that I need to visit that place much more often (and spend a good chunk of my paycheck there)! ;)
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Yeesh, that stuff gives me a roaring headache, almost as bad as the new MEK substitute (still haven't found out what that is yet, not that I'd ever use it).
The non acetone stuff does not smell nowhere near as bad as the ordinary stuff that my daughters use.
I have also used a product available in the uk called superstrip by pheonix paints www.phoenix-paints.co. (http://www.phoenix-paints.co.), put superstrip in the search box. I have painted and stripped a FUD model 3 times to try and get a good looking flat aluminium for my horizon cars, ended up using pheonix paint flat aluminium. There was no damage to the model using superstrip. Their paint is also excellent, as good as Floquil unfortunately they only do UK railway colours.
Alexander
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pheonix paints www.phoenix-paints.co. (http://www.phoenix-paints.co.)
Phoenix Precision http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/ (http://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/)
Fixed that for you.
(They also happen to be a great manufacture of prototype paints, but sadly for SPFs, Brunswick Green isn't the same on the other side of the pond.)
-Cody F.
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Pearl Drops
LOL. The cure all for polishing gears in an Athearn locomotive.
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I got mine yesterday .. some pics of the work .. looks pretty good to me .. picture manipulated to show details
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/An4YT-MNtJClJ3fzwTIQ_IsNene5-4PtaKONvQvzAg=w599-h571-p-no)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-fQor9rOyIuQ/UdRf2nSRjWI/AAAAAAAANlY/C6YPPb8lbKU/w594-h571-no/IMG_8383.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HHmXbKIniVg/UdRf3LEIlMI/AAAAAAAANlg/1uUSwWIpnZQ/w561-h571-no/IMG_8384.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-NRYsqR_3WBg/UdRf39IFESI/AAAAAAAANlk/oLxEYKtsRSo/w599-h571-no/IMG_8385.JPG)
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I received my BQ23-7 cab last night. Yes, there is some texturing from the printing on it, but I am hopeful that will be rectified by burnishing. Overall, I'm really satisfied with the quality, although I admit that I have not attempted to fit the cab to a B23-7 shell yet.
DFF
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John,
What's your plan for windows and lighting?
DFF
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John,
What's your plan for windows and lighting?
DFF
Not sure yet .. I have some detail parts left over from my GP10 project . .so might just carve off most of the details and replace with castings .. I am going to do grab irons from BLMA .. and add an Atlas horn .. windows I think are going to be made from document protector plastic, lined with silver sharpie ..
Here is alexander's build thread .. http://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/14327
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Thanks for the link, John. That's very helpful. I think I'm going to try to cut and fit a clear material (probably styrene) to each window opening, too. That won't be fun, but not impossible. I may try to see if I can figure out a fiber optic headlight. In my era (1983-86), the SBD BQ23-7s could still be found on the point. If I were modeling a CSX unit, I could get away without lighting, since they were considered pretty much B units at that point. Heh, CSX units can even have their windows plated over, but that's too easy. ;)
DFF
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Mine' in the Bestine as we speak. I plan to pull, polish with toothpaste, and prime tonite. So we'll see.
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Mine' in the Bestine as we speak. I plan to pull, polish with toothpaste, and prime tonite. So we'll see.
I dont have bestine .. nor know where to get it ..
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I got mine at an art supply house in Silver Spring on Georgia Avenue. I would hope something similar exists up your way.
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Changed the topic name ..
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I got my Bestine at the local Pla-za art supply store:
http://www.plazaart.com/
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Thanks for the link, John. That's very helpful. I think I'm going to try to cut and fit a clear material (probably styrene) to each window opening, too. That won't be fun, but not impossible. I may try to see if I can figure out a fiber optic headlight. In my era (1983-86), the SBD BQ23-7s could still be found on the point. If I were modeling a CSX unit, I could get away without lighting, since they were considered pretty much B units at that point. Heh, CSX units can even have their windows plated over, but that's too easy. ;)
DFF
Not exactly.
It depends on what specific time period you model.
They converted most of these to B units at the same time.
And that time was after Bright Future was in place-- which IIRC was about 1990.
This is Montgomery Ala about 1990-1991
http://www.trainweb.org/csxphotos/photos/BQ23-7/3003CSX-bc.jpg
Since I model from CSX start on July 1, 1986 to 2000 with the Conrail merger, I need both kinds, with and without windows.
By the way, you Family Lines modelers, did you know that ONE unit (#5138) had a window on the nose?
Plated over by CSX days.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3332118
Plated over by 1981- before SBD merger.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=935550
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Most Michael's have Bestine. Failing that, there are online sources.
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I dont have bestine .. nor know where to get it ..
Ronsonol lighter fluid (Naphtha) should also work (but not as well). Naphtha is also available (usually as VM&P Naphtha) in the thinners section of your local friendly hardware store.
Lacquer thinner is much more potent and will work too. But I'm not sure if it will also attach the resin. I used lacquer thinner on the ESM White Tower restaurant RP-printed model and it did not get damaged. But that one was not printed by Shapeways.
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I was just messing around and only attempting to rough cut the B23-7 long hood. But, it turned out to be so easy that I already have the BQ23-7 cab fit to the Atlas B23-7 long hood and walkway.
My only problem is that the B23-7 that I started with was damaged not too long ago, so I don't have the long hood handrail for the fireman's side. I'll have to order that from Atlas, which, of course, won't match the paint. Since I'm already starting with a factory painted Family Lines scheme, I was hoping to match the paint of the new cab and touch-ups.
Anyone have an extra fireman's side long hood handrail from a Family Lines B23-7 that they can part with?
DFF
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I have an undec Atlas B23-7 minus couplers, black handrails if that does anything for you
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I dont have bestine .. nor know where to get it ..
I found mine next to the rubber cement in an art supply store (as it is formulated as a thinner for that product).
Best wishes, Dave
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Yeah, I got mine dry fitted.
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/1003809_10201224674435129_910928974_n.jpg)
Need to polish with the toothpaste - that cab side was white once the Bestine dried.
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Looks good to me,I've been wanting these cabs for years so I guess waiting till I get the new show layouy ready will definitely be worth the wait. :D
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Being I model 92-95, looks like the cabs were plated over in that timeframe. But they probably didn't get put into pool power too much during that time either.
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Not trying to be a rivet counter....
And I know that some people care about some things and others don't--- and I'm very cool with that.
But for those that care, the BQ23-7 does not use an anticlimber on the front pilot.
The Atlas shell comes with and without an anticlimber.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?mid=235
I know this has been confusing to me in the past, trying to figure out Atlas' codes so I can order the correct shell I want.
It is probably a minor detail, but I thought I would point it out if it mattered to anyone.
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I have an undec Atlas B23-7 minus couplers, black handrails if that does anything for you
I'll gladly take it off of your hands. PM sent.
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Not trying to be a rivet counter....
And I know that some people care about some things and others don't--- and I'm very cool with that.
But for those that care, the BQ23-7 does not use an anticlimber on the front pilot.
The Atlas shell comes with and without an anticlimber.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?mid=235
I know this has been confusing to me in the past, trying to figure out Atlas' codes so I can order the correct shell I want.
Ron,
You are correct. My shell definitely has one, but I think a razor saw will make quick work of that.
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Phil, if you need any anti-climberless parts, let me know. I have a few stripped CSX shells laying around including CSX blue and CS orange handrails.
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Hi all
Sorry for not keeping up with the thread.
Thanks to John and Phillip for the pictures showing their work.
Thanks also to John for putting the link to MRH, something I should have done but at the moment seem to be running fast to stand still.
As for windows I am still thinking on that one, I think they will just have to be cut out individually, Shapeways do a sort of clear plastic which I have used for windows for my Horizon cars but I do not think the material is good enough for cab windows.
Look forward to seeing your finished work.
If anybody has suggestions on improvements that are possible please ask.
Alexander
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By the way, you Family Lines modelers, did you know that ONE unit (#5138) had a window on the nose?
Plated over by CSX days.
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=935550
That has answered my question, that only one unit had the nose window, the Model Railroader drawing shows the nose window and the small side windows.
If anybody would like a body with these in place please ask and I will do one, or even a plated over B unit, one of the great advantages of 3D, individual mods are relatively easy to do.
Alexander
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Alexander,
I would be interested in the one like you have now-- with the triangle windows added if possible.
I would also like a plated over version.
So that would make two I would buy from you.
As a CSX modeler, I don't need the extra window on the nose.
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I would be interested in the one like you have now-- with the triangle windows added if possible.
I would also like a plated over version.
I will start working on, should not take too long.
Alexander
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Ron
Were the cab door windows plated over as well on the "B" units?
I am planning on leaving the cab arm rest on as I have noticed some did not have them removed.
Alexander
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I dont have bestine .. nor know where to get it ..
IIRC Michaels by Horrendous Mills has it. There is also a privately owned paint/craft shop in Annapolis proper that has it too.
The S.
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Alexander, all of the B-units ended up getting the windows plated over ,on some of the Bs the patches were metal finished and some just got plates welded on then got painted.
If you are planning to do the cab with the small side windows I think I will wait for those. :D
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all of the B-units ended up getting the windows plated over ,on some of the Bs the patches were metal finished and some just got plates welded on then got painted.
If you are planning to do the cab with the small side windows I think I will wait for those. :D
Hi Johnathan
It was specifically the rear cab door windows I am unsure about, I have found one picture of 3006B that shows the engineers side rear cab door still intact so I think I will leave them in unless somebody with more specific information can help.
The cab with the small windows is complete and uploaded to Shapeways but there is a problem with the shop pages and models are not showing, they are working on it. For want of a better description it is called BQ23-7 cab V2.
Alexander
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Hi all
BQ23-7 "B" is now uploaded to Shapeways.
Cab with triangular window - http://www.shapeways.com/model/1195040/bq23-7-cab-v2.html?li=productBox-search (http://www.shapeways.com/model/1195040/bq23-7-cab-v2.html?li=productBox-search)
Cab with windows plated over - http://www.shapeways.com/model/1195095/bq23-7-b.html?li=productBox-search (http://www.shapeways.com/model/1195095/bq23-7-b.html?li=productBox-search)
Alexander
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Excellent!!!
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Excellent!!!
+1
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IIRC Michaels by Horrendous Mills has it.
Yup .. got a lifetime supply of it :)
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So I'm too lazy to take pics tonight (!) but with the cab and long hood now secured to the frame, I thought I'd tsrt on detailing this little show piece. FOund the cards for my BLMA 15 and 18 inch grab irons - but not the little baggies of same. Nuts. I did manage to use the molded grab irons to locate and drill mounting holes for the others, so that's progress. Anybody got any idea which width is needed, or is it a bend your own sort of deal?
I also drilled out the headlight openings and drilled dimples for the class lights using the printed ones. These will be non-working MV lenses so I can keep my sanity.
Finally, my razor saw made quick work of the anticlimber per Ron's documentation. Now to install the ditchlights, hoses, etc.
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Can't wait to see it Phillip.
Thanks for blazing the way on this.
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Did any of these ever make it into pool power? Or into the PNW?
And which cab would correct for mid 90s?
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I can't answer about pool power- although i would have my doubts.
As for time period, 1990-92, i know the windows were still used. But by about 1993 or 4, they converted them to B units. So if you model mid 90s then all B units.
I model all the way back to 1986 so i need both.
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This thread makes me truly wonder what a CQ36-7 would've been like...
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Ed, there is no reason why we couldn't have fun and make one.
I fact, I plan to make a BQ18-7 or 8!
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Hi, just skipping through this topic and I noticed that someone was polishing up their model with toothpaste, for what it is worth, and purely as side comment not trying to change the topic, another fine abrasive you can use is water and cigarette ash mixed into a paste. This mix does not have the flavors found in toothpaste (usually essential oils) that can sometimes effect the resins. The down side is the smell but it is not residual. Cheers.
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This thread makes me truly wonder what a CQ36-7 would've been like...
As far as I know GE had offered their full model line at that time with the option of a Q cab. So it is not that far from fantasy.
Alexander
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The concept of the Q-cabs was a good one... what likely kept the concept from being used further (likewise on the extended cabs of a few Frisco GP50s) was new crew agreements that reduced the number of crew members on a train... the first steps to what we have so commonly today.
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The concept of the Q-cabs was a good one... what likely kept the concept from being used further (likewise on the extended cabs of a few Frisco GP50s) was new crew agreements that reduced the number of crew members on a train... the first steps to what we have so commonly today.
Frisco didn't have GP50s with Q cabs, it was BN, and from the BN order, not the Frisco order. The Frisco units were phase I units, BN 3100-3109, while the BN ordered ones were phase II, BN 3110-3162, the last 5, 3158-3162 were the Q cab units.
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The Q cab was a GE designation.
I'm not sure it is an appropriate moniker for the EMD GP50s BN had.
Just like a Q cab is not a "north American" cab either.
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Finally got Shapeways page to cooperate long enough to order my cabs (got version 2 if yourinterested). Since these cabs were offered across the whole dash 7 lineup I plan to try one on a C30-7.If it requires to much rework I will just do a pair of 23-7s.The big decision will be CSX or GVR.
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I plan to try one on a C30-7.If it requires to much rework I will just do a pair of 23-7s.
It hopefully would only require some work on the bottom of the cab, if you need that doing it should not be a big job to alter one specifically for you.
Look forward to seeing your work.
Alexander
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The Q cab was a GE designation.
I'm not sure it is an appropriate moniker for the EMD GP50s BN had.
I don't believe there was a special designation for the extra length cabs on the GP50s. BN didn't class those units differently than the other GP50s.
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Is there a particular Atlas Blomberg truck frame that I need to be looking for?.. or are all the 4-axle frames interchangeable within the Atlas line of products?
Mike C
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You want plain old Blomberg trucks from a GP38 early or GP40.
You do NOT want trucks from a DASH-2 as they usually have the "snubbers" on one axle- which is a little shock absorber.
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Is there a particular Atlas Blomberg truck frame that I need to be looking for?.. or are all the 4-axle frames interchangeable within the Atlas line of products?
Mike C
I used Atlas part number 480305 this is Common to GP-7, 9, 30, 35, 38, 40 and 40-2, simple job of un-clipping the existing frame and clipping the new one on.
Alexander
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I used Atlas part number 480305 this is Common to GP-7, 9, 30, 35, 38, 40 and 40-2, simple job of un-clipping the existing frame and clipping the new one on.
Alexander
Perfect, thanks! :D
Mike
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You want plain old Blomberg trucks from a GP38 early or GP40.
You do NOT want trucks from a DASH-2 as they usually have the "snubbers" on one axle- which is a little shock absorber.
Ron,
Yeah, I knew I didn't need any of the -2 series due to the snubbers, I just wasn't sure which first generation Blomberg frame I should be looking for, or if all the Atlas truck assemblies were the same with interchangeable frames
Thanks! :D
Mike
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I know a good deal about Atlas parts---- so I feel kind of dumb asking this question....
But are there different standard Blomberg trucks that Atlas sells. I thought they were all the same.
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I'm speaking generally here, because there are always exceptions, and, as always, Ed's Law applies. That said, the "Blomberg B" is what is on F units and Geeps (up to the GP38 and GP40 models) and had four brake cylinders and eight brake shoes per truck. The -2 models (GP38-2 and GP40-2) and GP60s had the "Blomberg M," which had two brake cylinders and four brake shoes per truck, as well as the snubber (shock absorber looking device) that was referred to in a previous post. The Blomberg M on the GP40-2 had rubber pads in lieu of the leaf spring suspension that can be found on the Blomberg B and the Blomberg M trucks of the GP38-2 and GP60 models.
To the best of my knowledge, Atlas makes the Blomberg B and Blomberg M (with rubber pads).
DFF
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Just an important fyi. Not ALL -2s had Blomberg Ms. The Bs were an option, I think, or were at least applied later in shops because the Ms had less stopping power, which is important when switching with straight air.
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So with hand grabs gluing in, and other details going on, I've started to think paint. I think I'll follow Dave Foxx's idea and do an SBD paint out over the Family lines scheme - mostly because I have enough scrap decals to make it work. Any idea on paint colors for this? Obviously it will be grey, but which grey is vexing . . . . perhaps its the lighting but Ifind Family Lines/SBD grey to be . . . yellower . . . then KCS grey.
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Guilford Grey would be a good starting point - perhaps mix in bit of white to lighten things up - the paint tended to fade pretty quickly.
Cheers!
Marc - Riverside
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Got my two cabs today.For being made in New York they are pretty decent (last order made in New York was less than disappointing).So I will be adding pics to this build thread.My unitys will have anti climbers because my railroad exists in 2013 and railway safety is big on the GVR.
Only problem so far is I have misplaced the C30-7 I bought the second cab for. :(
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Hi Catt
Glad to hear you are happy with the quality, it seems things are improving.
Look forward to seeing your results especially the C30-7 - that will certainly wind a few people up.
Alexander
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Alexander,this was not the pic I planned to start with but it shows how well the BQ cab will work with the KATO locomotive.There is roughly a .020"gap at the front of the cab between the bottom of the cab and the top of the pilot that I need to figure out how to eliminate.
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7b.jpg)
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First pic shows the piece I glued to the bottom of the cab front .This piece is roughly .020" thick and I cut it from sheet stock.
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7c.jpg)
Second pic shows the spacers I glued to the walk way to help keep the cab setting straight on the walk way.There are two tabs on each side that need to be trimmed to allow the cab to sit flat on the battery boxes.You can see the two on the engineers side.The SW cabsides are thicker tghannthe KATO or you could just use them for side to side cab alignment.The pieces are cut a little shorter than the inside dimention of the cab and glued in from the edge the width of the cab shell.
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7d.jpg)
Now if I could only remember what I did with the long hood. :?
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So this is going to be a
CQ30-7
I love it.
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A little more progress (I found the long hood).Since I like to keep as much of the origonal hood for purposes of making things stronger I cut just enough of the short hood off to allow the cab to fit.I discovered while fitting things together that the KATO hood is a bit wider so some material needs to be removed from the back wall of the cab.With out getting to fancy and getimating material removal I would say roughly .03 to .040" per side.The C30 batttery boxes are taller than the B23 so there will be a small vertical gap at the rear edge of the cab that will need to be filled.I'm liking what I have so far and am thinking about doing another unit to match.
I think two of these and a pair of BQ23-7s will look neat in the gray and burgandy colour scheme of the GVR. Oh yeah, here is a current pic of the CW30-7.
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7e.jpg)
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Hey Catt, I guess since this is a fictitious loco, you can call it what you want.
But the Quarters cab is different from other typical W cab GE locos.
The Q cab is pretty unique-- and GE offered it on all their locos at the time- with only 10 in the B23 series made.
So, if it were mine, I'd stick to CQ30-7 instead of Cw30-7.
Just my 2 cents.
One day I hope to make a BQ18-7.
Yes, one was actually offered- even if no one wanted one.
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Catt,
That is cool. Can't wait for my cabs and locos to arrive.
Joe
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Very well played sir. I could see you just painting the cab to match the body and then doing a patch out for the road numbers.
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So, if it were mine, I'd stick to CQ30-7 instead of Cw30-7.
The cab was available for any Dash 7 and since this is a C30-7 with the cab it would be a CQ30-7 ,and that is exactly what I call it. :D
It's not a "What if" loco it is exactly what the loco would look like had it been ordered with the Q cab.
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(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7e.jpg)
That looks awesome.
Alexander
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Hi Catt
If you wish a custom shell for another CQ30-7 let me know, extending the bottom is a simple job so you do not need to add the styrene.
Alexander
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Alexander,I will be doing more,but for the time being this one is it.Here are two more progress pics.This one is done untill I get the BQ23-7 to this point.Then both will be finished together.
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7f.jpg)
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/cq30-7g.jpg)
I'm tempted to leave it gray,probably would if I could get my GVR decals in blue. :D
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Very nice. I managed to get my horn and exhaust stack mounted last night and all the grab iron holes drilled for the rear using the BLMA template (held on with some double sided tape. Then ,either fatigue set in or I have the wrong tweezers, because every time I tried to insert a preformed grab iron into the hole, it rotated up, or sideways, or left - anywhere but in the hole. :facepalm:
Will try again tonight. :trollface:
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Philip,it's the grab irons,they don't like having their feet stuck in those holes with a bunch of glue :D.
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The start of the BQ23-7 part of the project.
(http://boylerwerx.0catch.com/bq23-7a.jpg)
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Looks great! :D
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Anyone have any more progress pics to share? :)
Mike C.
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Week I have paint to apply and decals to do. So stand by.
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Grey paint applied:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001575_10201579720631062_783649471_n.jpg)
It's in the shadows, so it appears darker then it is. I think it will be ok once the decals and fade coat dry.
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Looks good so far! :)
Which paint did you use?
Mike
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Rattle can grey primer. It's down in the basement right now and I'm too lazy to go see which one!
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looking good Philip.
Alexander
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Rattle can grey primer. It's down in the basement right now and I'm too lazy to go see which one!
LOL! :D
Works for me! 8)
Mike
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yeah, I'm often cheap and lazy. Iwas really just trying it out as a primer, but I like the look, so I'll keep it. Now to find the Glosscote for decalling.
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Grey paint applied:
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/1001575_10201579720631062_783649471_n.jpg)
It's in the shadows, so it appears darker then it is. I think it will be ok once the decals and fade coat dry.
Philip,
Granted, we're dealing with different lighting and cameras, but I don't think that your choice of gray is too dark. Look at this stock Atlas B23-7 (SCL) and B30-7 (SBD). In reality, the grays of the Family Lines and the Seaboard System schemes varied a lot due to paint chemistry and weathering. Ed's law applies.
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc84/dff21901/DSCF0901.jpg)
(http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc84/dff21901/20121122_140258.jpg)
DFF
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Hey guys, we're dealing with different gray paints due to fading - as almost every railroad must deal with. Pennsy fresh black/green is different from that faded very dark pea green.
FL/SBD Systen gray was "French Gray" which was a little dark and had a slight tint of brown to it.
So if you are modeling these NEW on the Family Lines, then that would be correct.
But if you model CSX like I do, I plan to use plain old Reefer gray which is less brown and less dark.
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Anyone make it to the decal stage yet? :)
Mike C.
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On one side, yes. I need to take some pics to post.
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Looking forward to seeing all the outcomes in N scale.
I have done a cab in HO as well, the test print is somewhere between here and Florida to a HO modeller for his comments.
Alexander
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Hi, just skipping through this topic and I noticed that someone was polishing up their model with toothpaste, for what it is worth, and purely as side comment not trying to change the topic, another fine abrasive you can use is water and cigarette ash manufactured by electronic cigarettes manufacturers (http://www.ecigfiend.com/news/). This mix does not have the flavors found in toothpaste (usually essential oils) that can sometimes effect the resins. The down side is the smell but it is not residual. Cheers.
yes even I have heard about these toothpaste manufacturers using wrong substances.. I think govt must take strict action and ban such products straightaway..
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yes even I have heard about these toothpaste manufacturers using wrong substances.. I think govt must take strict action and ban such products straightaway..
Uh... Riiiiight...
Anyway,
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Now something completely different....
(warning, language, adult content, drug reference, ya know, usual stuff.)
:scared: :facepalm:
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That might be my favorite Thomas parody yet.
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That's just brilliant :facepalm:
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How did I miss this thread? I built this when these units were brand new,could barely find pics of them,and the only U-boat you could buy was the Bachmann..The cab was kind of a guesstimate,no internet,only going from a magazine pic,made it from the sides of a Mehano FA..Still have it..
(http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss53/LV_LOUIE/newdownload1684.jpg) (http://s561.photobucket.com/user/LV_LOUIE/media/newdownload1684.jpg.html)
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(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-DduSeZpQm74/U0IXAb07QAI/AAAAAAAACjU/Hm0Q3AjkvJM/w825-h616-no/IMG_0653.JPG)
SO here's mine - the Family lines decal is done on both sides as is the road number. I need to do the nose lines and all the little decals before installing the handrails and couplers. She does have a decoder so I've run her around a bit in the yard.
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Philip, glad to see that drive be put to good use, you've done a really nice job with the paint and decaling