TheRailwire
General Discussion => Layout Engineering Reports => Topic started by: Rossford Yard on July 16, 2012, 09:59:30 AM
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Wyatt (Soo) and I spent another weekend on my new IHB layout. He took some pix, and said if I started a thread, he would post them.
Since moving to a new house about March 1, we (mostly he in the benchwork phase) have made a lot of progress. It's a 10 x 20 room, (actually a garage bay walled in and pumped with AC)
I designed a two level, U shaped (with liftout, its really a donut) layout which has several signature scenes/areas of the IHB represented.
The lower level contains 20 staging tracks from 10-16' long. It was installed using some unfinished cabinets from Lowes as the basic support. It is up and running (see my bullet proof track thread over in N scale) after running a 6 axle loco and up to 10 cars of various makes forward and back at full throttle through the yard ladders. While I couldn't keep BLMA spine cars on the track, everything else ran fine, after a few misc tweaks to the Peco turnouts I used. The lower level and helix are code 80, since I bought a hundred pieces of Atlas flex and several Peco turnouts at an estate sale for $0.50 and $5.00 each respectively. Probably more reliable anyway.
Upper level is mostly pencil lines on plywood right now. It comes out of helix right into a pretty good reprentation of the Blue Island Junction. It turns out we only had to scale it down about 30% and have devoted more space to such a scene that most would, and it sure looks realistic, even in pencil! We used HO truss bridges, which turn out to be just a wee bit big for the huge bridges at Blue Island, and N double track fits nicely with some mods.
The layout loops around to the other side, where we have laid out a reasonable representation of Gibson Yard. Yes, IHB switches more at Blue Island than Gibson (or, as we dub it "the Mel") which focues on autoracks, but the turntable, engine terminal and junction up to the steel mills, Kankakee Line, and NYC/CR/NS are just too much to pass up. The roundhouse and major junction are the entry scene when you walk in the double doors.
At first, we feared we have given up too much switching, but have realistically depicted the interchange with IAIS, and a hint of the scrap yard, along with the 4 track CN/GT interchange for swithcing at Blue Island.
We will also have:
*a slightly moved oil refinery near Gibson,
*a few wall flat industries along the IHB main (similar to their real life locations)
* a short branch up to a grain elevator facility (using from last layout)
* a small timesaver type industrial park in the corner opposite the west Gib yard lead, around the corner,
* Gibson itself will do some autorack transfers on the back tracks (a la the prototype) and in the front classification yard, make up some transfer trains and cuts for local industries.
*We are trying to find a way to effectively use the space over the helix as a huge steel mill to really give an IHB flair. Long term plans include going into the spare bedroom next door, either for narrow staging representing the line north to lake front steel plants, or maybe, just modeling the steel plants themselves. Real estate negotiations have begun with the GF.
I actually like the the switching of larger blocks of cars to fewer places will make for better ops than endless switching puzzles and cherry picking cars out of along line for single placement. The above represent 6-7 potential switch jobs, but none should last more than 45 minutes, (unless held for traffic at Blue Island Junction, which I would only do for the nittiest of nitpickers :D) I think most switch jobs last too long and most of us would prefer to 45 minute jobs to a single two hour job.
After this weekend, you (if Wyatt follows through!) see the upper level benchwork in place and some of the pencil lines, along with one of the HO bridges placed for and idea of the massive Blue Island consist. If Wyatt doesn't post pix, well, I guess this was a waste of typing!
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I told Jeff that when I got home and got some well deserved rest, that I would post pictures.
So without any further wait,, TA DA!!!!!!
This is level for the staging level. Cabinets were used to make the benchmark height. 1/2" ply with cork used for sub roadbed.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/1332123986317.jpg)
Here is the helix area, you can see construction is just starting.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/1336229765684.jpg)
Almost done with the helix. No dimensional lumber was used in the layout. I ripped all material from 3/4" plywood sheets.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/1338211513054.jpg)
Here are the staging yards.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/1338211451906.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-06-10132530.jpg)
There ya have the beginings of the layout.
Adios Wyatt
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The pictures continue....
Here is the upper level benchwork for what is going to be the gibson yard area. I had a idea of using a cantilever brace for construction,,but I guess murphy and his brothers built this house. Because the walls are that are not that straight or plumb. Which would result in caddywhompus benchwork, ask any one that knows me,,,,, I DON'T BUILD JACKED UP STUFF!!! So I decided to insert legs to correct that issue, also used string lines to insure proper straightness. ( yes I am particular when it comes to something I build.)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-07-14225909.jpg)
Here are a couple different views of the completed upper level.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-07-15173657.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-07-15173808.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-07-15174001.jpg)
Here we have Jeff holding the lift out with all the pride of a new father!!! LOL
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-07-15173851.jpg)
Progress is being made.
Adios Wyatt
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Nicely done gentlemen! Too bad you have to mess all that good plywood with scenery and track (!) :facepalm:
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Should probably also add that one of the best layout design features for those of us with...ah..ample girth, is the aisles which are mostly five foot wide. Over the years and layouts, I have learned that creature comfort is more important than one more track here or there.
The entry bridge is only 3' wide for engineering reasons and because the turntable area right and helix and closet left sort of dictate that. The other knob is a protrusion to model the overhead RI/Metra/IAIS line. It will be a dummy line, but necessary to get the feel of the Blue Island crossing.
Also, no grades other than the helix. Walls crooked and floor unlevel meant constant use of level rather than assuming legs should be cut to same lenth.
BTW, we could play "spot the differences" between the first batch and second batch of photos. Anyone notice a small benchwork difference between the two.
BTW II, been a modeler for years, and still learning. Accidently bought white instead of clear adhesive latex caulk and decided to use it on the first staging yard before running out and switching to clear. First time I have glued rather than track nailed track, and it is a wonderfully quick techinque that is actually better at getting straight track, providing you push it all against a straight edge while waiting for it to dry.
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That is a great start, I am very interested in following your progress, thanks for sharing,
my best,
jan
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Very nice. I'm a big fan of 10x20 rooms with light blue walls for layout space. :) Looking forward to seeing some gritty urban scenes come forth.
How are the two staging yards supposed to function? Are they sequential, both accessed by the helix, or is there another connection to the one on the right (looking from the door)?
-Gary
P.S. I can't see any differences in the benchwork photos... :?
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Well I have two more picture for your veiwing pleasure. I had to place descriptions so ya'll would know what is trying to be accomplished.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/diamondswithdescriptions.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/lookingsouthdescription.jpg)
To all the enquiring minds,, the subtle benchwork change came in the form of,,,, the change in the helix frame. I chopped the corner and made it an angle instead. SOMEONE!!!!!!! did not like it. :P
Adios till next time,, Wyatt
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Luv the shape of the layout.
That one spot looks pretty far away reach-wise.
As I've found out, even at 6'3", over 24" away and things start getting a little dicey.
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That looks like a cool concept, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the operations here. With something like 4 lines in the scene here, I get the impression that trains will be coming and going every which way. Is it more straightforward than that? For those of us not familiar with the prototype, how do these lines work together in the real world?
This will be fun to see develop.
-gfh
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Gary,
Good question. Blue Island is one of the busiest junctions in America, and most of that trackage follows the prototype so that on some nights I can enjoy a layout with a railfan perspective of many different trains going by the same spot (using some hidden trackage connections to let all the trains go the right way.
On ops nights, the basic pattern will be similar to my last layout - a variety of trains (on the IHB belt, all RR use it for transfer and some through trains) come up the helix from staging, run through the signature scene (sometimes waiting for the junction to clear) on the IHB main, and go to the yard which classifies cars for transfer trains (which go right back to staging) or the local industries and interchanges we have fit in the railroad.
So, ops will be pretty standard, with a little eye candy thrown in from other RR, an advantage of building a terminal/belt line type RR.
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Zoinks. Chicago is such an awesome area... that's gonna be incredible.
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Yeah, Blue Island is a spaghetti bowl, with trains going every which way. I really ought to dig into my slide collection and find the pics of a trio of IHB Centuries moving a cut around one of the transfer legs. '78 or '79, I think.
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Are you thinking of the Belt Railway of Chicago Alcos? Think IHB was almost all EMD. Those C425 would be awesome for Atlas to do and would be my last wish list loco!
One other thing Wyatt's loose track photos bring to mind...selective angular compression. Blue Island Xings are really at 13 degrees. We tried the Atlas 11.25 degree crossings, went to 22.5 and ended up using 30 degrees to space the tracks out and run straight into each edge of the helix. But, comparing to the little ground level photos in the books, it looks right.
Sent these photos to a few other MRR friends, and one wrote back to see if we used stud finders where the tracks appear as if they will puncture the wall, since he tried similar things and hit a 2 x 6 straight on. We did locate studs, but the CSX tracks will likely be dummies, with the inside one hooking quickly back to the IHB for continuous running of CSX trains, if I want.
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>Are you thinking of the Belt Railway of Chicago Alcos?
:facepalm: Of course I am. 33 years of memory fog. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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So,whose lost it more? You forgetting a loco road owner, or me saying it would be my "last loco on my wish list?" , Off the top of my head, I need several IHB schemed SW 1500's just for one.....
This will drive Wyatt crazy, but the comment from M Winicki has me rethinking the roundhouse because of the long reach behind it. While I plan no turnouts or fancy track back there, it is still a reach. The reason is because of the near half circle roundhouse, facing the yard. If I turned it 90 degrees to face my aisle, I could narrow the widest point there from 44" to 33", which is still a bit long, but doable.
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You're killing me!!! Make my mind up will ya!!!! :facepalm: :facepalm: :RUEffinKiddingMe: You could just comprimise and call it 40". I like my idea about going through the wall for Barr Yard (CSX).
I am ready to get some firm lines down, throw some cork down,, lay some track!!!!!!!!!!!!. This layout will the 2nd most famous Illinios rail junction in N Scale!!! First being Mr Kruse.
Adios Wyatt
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Well, aren't we aiming for the moon! Dk will be pretty hard to beat though.
Just considering the long term ramifications of an unreachable area in the name of absolute proto fidelity (well, closer anyway, on the shape, angle, etc of the roundhouse).
I have been putting some track lines down, and am convinced we will be okay if I just put one CSX main hard by the inside of the wall, using industries and scenery to cover it up. Of course, I will need to change them a few more times before final, for instance perhaps not parallelling the wall.....
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Blue Island is one of my FAVORITE spots in Chicago, and I too have been dreaming of a way to model it accurately- I'm excited to follow your progress!
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Gringo,
I had been thinking about it for a long time, too. And the arrangement of huge bridges ending at the backdrop gives just a perfect way for tracks to exit the layout, at least IMHO.
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I say that proto is important. Or at least close to it. Maybe when I come up there next,, there just might be a CSX line not in the layout room. :D
Adios Wyatt
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Soo,
Well, I decided to lay a hidden CSX track right along the back wall, connecting back at the throat of Gibson near the window. The idea of cutting a hole in a wall to a non air conditioned garage space for more stub ended staging, when I have 22 tracks below, seemed waaaaaay to out there for me, especially since I need that wall for garage storage items, like rakes. And, I hate big electric bills!
At least for now I will have one hidden CSX staging track that will not require going down to staging. Still wondering if a hidden track is worth the potential trouble of having more realistice "dissapearence" of CSX stack trains coming from Chicago, since they will be visiblle for only a few feet throught the crossing. I laid the cork, but may leave the track out. I haven't sanded the cork yet......
I have corked all of Blue Island and am working towards Gibson. Also, painted those bridges, and will glue them together tonight or tomorrow.
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Yes I know you hate big electric bills,,,, believe me I know. Glad to see you are getting work done. Much nicer to work in a climate controlled room, than a hot garage.
Looks this coming weekend is a no go,,,,, but still there is one more day where the plans can change.
Adios Wyatt
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Wyatt,
Well, I am really corked! Not really, but the layout is......more than half the Blue Island side.
Newest problem is that I decided after seeing a few of the No. 10 turnouts that all the mains should be that. Only problem is, it seems only left hand no. 10's are in stock anywhere. Need some right hands!
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Well this weekend was productive. Track was laid, switchmachines installed, track feeders dropped. The IHB work crew was able to get the track tied in from the helix to the visable trackage on the top deck. Alot of track was installed. Rossford yard would be able to give a percentage of track laid.
The IHB is starting a new work program,,,we beileve in starting them young.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-08-03215744.jpg)
Here you can see the majority of the work done. The first two are of the diamond area, and the last one is of the crossovers leading into Gibson Yard. From bottom to top,, IHB 1, IHB 2 and then the CSX main. I am getting pretty pumped!!! This layout will be the envy of young and old alike, LOL
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-08-05152300.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-08-05152409.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/2012-08-05152431.jpg)
Here are two videos that were taken with a test train running on DC analog,,don't worry kiddies,, DCC is going to be installed soon.
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The grandkids can now proudly say "they helped." :D Wyatt is probably more amenable to them helping than me. LOL.
But, we got corked all the way around, and the mainline laid from the helix to the Gibson yard throat (in front of window.)
Biggest takeaways from the weekend are that once you start using No. 10 turnouts, the 3.5 Y, the 21.25/15" curved turnouts and No. 7 sure look sharp radius! And, looking at the "cosmetic" (and near prototype at 70" + radius just south of Blue Island, the 21.25/22.5/23.75 radii curve in the corner sure look "tight" too. Kicking myself for not going with full HO standards of something like 30" minimum.
Anyway, I think we are taking full advange of what N has to offer here, by focusing on a signature scene.
Wyatt split a gut when he came up from under the benchwork to see me spreading a bit of green craft paint out there to test it as a scenery base. At $0.97 per 2 oz bottle, it sure beats $7 for 4 oz of WS ground coloring. Actually works, although there needs to be some color blending, IMHO.
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Wow, great progress. I only know the prototype scene from clips on YT but that looks like a great depiction. Well done. Looking forward to seeing more.
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Fantastic progress! I spent some time studying maps of the area and it is indeed a hot spot that is instantly recognizable in your rendition. I know what you mean about the curves too: my 18" curves start looking like Lionel to me after a while...
-gfh
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Well sorry for the late update,,,having pc issues.
This past weekend saw the lighting and part of the valance installed. Jeff and I were trying to figure a lighting solution that did not invovle the expensive LED bars. Track lighting was solution that was determined to be the most cost effective route. After 25 lights and 2' of blondewood plywood hanging from the ceiling you get this, you can see we are trying to do the whole close encounters of the third kind...
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210425.jpg)
There is a gap at the top between the plywood and the sheetrock lid...dont worry,,, crown molding fixes all.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210438.jpg)
Here is a junky phone pic taken with the new lighting turned off and just a 4 bulb ceiling fan fixture providing the light
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210342.jpg)
Here we have some mock up pics using various structures and what not.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210242.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210109.jpg)
The building you see in the left side of the pic are hiding the CSX main so that can be used as staging.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210146.jpg)
[IMG]http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/2012-08-19210156.jpg[/IMG
And there ya have it,, some more work done on the 2nd best n scale junction layout...
Adios Wyatt
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I really like how you have developed this and incorporated this prototype scene into the plan.
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Well, you could say that Wyatt and I got "lit" this weekend..... :D We might be striving for the second best Illinois junction N scale layout (behind Daryl K and Rochelle) but we have to be at least tied for first in lighting. We should have taken a pic from outdoors in the driveway, sort of a "neighbor cam" since all the neighbors are wondering just what is going on in that room, esp. now with the glow lights.
It makes a huge difference in working in there and of course, the trains will present better. We are considering adding masonite to lower the valance to hide the lights more. The covered glass bulbs are better on the eyes than the exposed spirals at least. On the last IHB, the valance was too low, to cover long florecsent fixtures, but we bumped our heads when leaning in for switching, so we need to be careful. Hanging lights higher, with the new high ceiling helped.
You can see I am starting to put out structures so we can start aligning the spur tracks. While not totally proto, because I want to use existing structures I already have, they are generally in the right places, including the Kato bridge standing in as the 139th street bridge south of the junction.
I had laid out an upper branch to a grain elevator in the same location, but it looked too spaghetti bowl, and took out a few industries south of blue island (actually formerly rail served industries, but I am leaving them in for ops) So, now the grain facility is just served off the yard lead and is at ground level.
Ditto the Ethanol unloading facility. BI has a former grain elevator on the east end, Gibson has an ethanol plant near the east end, so I included both, but had to move locations to get them in, again in the name of ops.
The buildings on the left and by the window afford some swicthing and hide the CSX staging track. Gibson also has a branch leading off the west end, so at the window, that track may be used for both. Some actually look too crowded to my eye. Most of the IHB line in that area, while urban, doesn't have many structures. More like large paved areas covered with trailers and the like, so I may take out a few, and add elevated paved lots. It still appears scenery will be easy on the IHB, but the key will be great photos from Chicago serving as the prototypical backdrop.
But, I am trying to compromise as little as possible.
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More progress this weekend, but no photos. Switch Machines, bridges, and mainline completion, including the first full loop on many of the mainlines (IHB, CN, CSX)
Maybe more later.
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Didn't happen..... no pics :P
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Those videos are way Cool!
There is nothing better to see in model form than a busy, track laden junction!
Looking forward to seeing this progress....
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It did happen,, I was there!! I sees it wiff my own too I's.
Usually we clean up and take pics,, but not this time..( more wow pictures next time). Like Jeff said,, we were able to run trains on all the mains.. pretty kewl.
Adios Wyatt
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Any updates? I wanna see! I wanna see!
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Any updates? I wanna see! I wanna see!
I was also just thinking about this layout the other day, hope its moving along!
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Well we are back with a progress report.....( teletype sound in the backround).
Alot has gotten done, control panels, 50+ tortoises being installed. Gibson yard ( we call it " The Mel" ) was laid out and constructed, and a bunch of other stuff.
Since I am just the worker bee, the Super can respond with better description of what is really happening.
Picture Time!!!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-soH8Tw5itWU/URpQ00zj7aI/AAAAAAAAADI/2UxQgoIHWuw/s640/2013-02-11%252015.26.38.jpg)
Here is the proud owner, running the first job in The Mel.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rTlTvOshPiw/URpSrxHJIXI/AAAAAAAAAEU/6miFme2Bfuo/s800/2013-02-11%252015.05.48.jpg)
You can see there are two yards, one for eastbound and one for westbound movements. Each yard has a A/D track or two and the rest are class tracks, or some times they are no-class tracks,,lol.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UENpZSVJ5Lo/URpSTJIgpzI/AAAAAAAAADw/rWbWi-EKVmg/s800/2013-02-11%252015.07.12.jpg)
Starting at the wall, two tracks for long trains such as unit coal , stacks and racks. Refered to as the " Long Tracks" on the control panels. The next two are the mains. Then two A/D tracks , then class tracks... you get the idea. The yard by the Aisle only has one A/D track, rest are class tracks. The long track in the middle is the " runner".
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6VmFF5H4t7g/URpRkTtBWpI/AAAAAAAAADU/tA9MBLPFukw/s800/2013-02-11%252015.10.28.jpg)
Here is the control panel for the A yard and roundhouse area. Red means no,, Green means go. I used Bi-Polar LED's and DPDT sub-miniture toggles for all the control panels. And there are more control panels to come. All of the control panels were made with carstock and laminated on both sides, then attached to 1/8" masonite.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-XO5I9oT1GFI/URpTDw7n0mI/AAAAAAAAAE8/2Gw4J2JFWXE/s800/2013-02-11%252015.04.01.jpg)
Just a cool pic showing some IHB equipment. And the nice flowing yard tracks. LOL
Well there are more pics,, I just don't know the image restrictions per post.
See ya Wyatt
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Well that was quick,,lol.
The control panels are a pain in the rear. That is why I try to pre-construct them at the workbench,,then install them where they need to go. I first look at the torti's that are installed and see which way they throw. Then while wiring the panel at the work bench, I have a tortoise there for testing purpose, ( trust me,, GREAT IDEA!! ). So after all said and done, I just have to hook up the two wires for the tortoise and BOOM,, I am done.
Picture Time!!!
Sorry about the junk pics,, thought they were better.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00466_zps258858e7.jpg)
This the panel for the actual Blue Island Interlocking.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00467_zps7247e012.jpg)
Here are two temporary panels for the helix and staging area. As you can see, Francisco is for the IAIS and CP coming into the Blue Island Interlocking Area, which is about 4' to your right in the picture.
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00468_zpsdfbc188d.jpg)
And ,, wait for it,, wait for it,, you guessed it,, A control panel!!!!
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00465_zpsf1ca3467.jpg)
Super bad picture, but you get the idea.
Adios for now,, more pics coming. Wyatt
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I thought some action shots would be a cool thing. Away we go!!!
Picture Time!!!!
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00474_zpscab114b4.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00476_zps6ff26efd.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00477_zps9f3c9b5e.jpg)
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00478_zps48f3832b.jpg)
Well that is all folks!!
Adios, Wyatt
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Big thanks to Soo and Denver Road Doug for getting this back on track with a big work weekend. Life sort of intervened for a while. I was able to lay the back half of the yard at the rate of about one track per week.......
Other than finishing the roundhouse tracks and grain facility along the back wall, tracks are done and probably 90% wired now. I found that Union City Roundhouse at a train show all built for $60 (or about the cost of two of the four kits that make it up) and pounced. Gibson has four longer stalls near the leads, and I will use a Walthers Modern Roundhouse to simulate that, as the proto has two different architectural styles, too.
Wyatt convinced me to use more tortoise, to avoid a reach over the front yard to switch the back yard. Still have to reach with the uncoupling pick, hmm.....may have to add MT ramps. Might still go manual up front, just not sure how yet.
Anyway, glad to have a lot done. More as we go....
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Man, that is looking sweeeeeeeeeeet!!
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The photos don't do this layout justice. That yard is just HUGE and looks fantastic, and the Blue Island Jct scene is awesome. RY and Soo have done a great job of designing and building it. (I have had very little to do with it, but thanks for the mention anyways) They have almost killed each other a few times :scared: but the results are hard to argue. 8)
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Yes, the yard is big. Not so big that there wasn't at least five minutes of discussion about using a curved ladder around the far corner to add capacity......sheesh. Am I the typical model railroader, or what?
No blood was shed. It's funny though. In "real life" Wyatt was a homebuilding contractor, and I am an architect so we have those types of "discussons" about the "design process" and how much ought to be on paper (100% in his "contractors like opinion....) and how much needs to be "winged" in the field. (my architects perspective on the fine details, to get them right for the long term, even at the cost of a few construction delays)
We each bring perspective, but of course, the end goal is the same - the best layout possible. Wouldn't be possible to build something this big without the help of friends....at least not for me!
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(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-UENpZSVJ5Lo/URpSTJIgpzI/AAAAAAAAADw/rWbWi-EKVmg/s800/2013-02-11%252015.07.12.jpg)
Wow! FWIW, it looks huge in the picture too. This sure puts my track-laying progress to shame. Looking good!
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Outstanding job guys!
Love the yard.
The layout ought to be a ball to operate!
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r159/SooMilwCnw/mansfield%20ihb/DSC00474_zpscab114b4.jpg)
But for all the effort and resources you've put into the benchwork, track and control panels why not go with some nice photo backdrops for around the wall?
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Eventually, wall photos is the plan. For the scene you showed, I am planning on going to Chicago and getting a photo of that actual Broadway St. crossing. Hopefully that can be made into the proper perspective to make the road/wall joint seamless. If not, back to the drawing boards.
I have many structures and flats but the other areas will have background photos behind those as well. Behind Gibson, I might even do a distance shot of downtown Chicago, just for persepctive and to set the locale, although I am not sure you can actually see it from there in the proto. Blue Island, maybe, on a clear day.
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Yes thankfully there was no blood shed in the constructing of this model railroad. LOL I wish I had taken more time to clean up the room, maybe one day I can just take the time to clean so videos and or pictures would come out flawlessly.
We were trying to think of a manual way to throw the switches in the front,, sub-micro slide switch???, center over spring made from staples or music wire?? Still thinking on the that. I also noticed that there are 2-3 LED's that are not pulling their weight,,, time to go slackers!!!! I will change those out. Uniformity breeds excellence !!!!!! LOL
Well next time I go,, maybe some more work will get done,, heck I see a soldering iron and wires in my sleep now. LMAOOOOOOOO :scared:
Adios till next time, Wyatt
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Eventually, wall photos is the plan. For the scene you showed, I am planning on going to Chicago and getting a photo of that actual Broadway St. crossing. Hopefully that can be made into the proper perspective to make the road/wall joint seamless. If not, back to the drawing boards.
I have many structures and flats but the other areas will have background photos behind those as well. Behind Gibson, I might even do a distance shot of downtown Chicago, just for persepctive and to set the locale, although I am not sure you can actually see it from there in the proto. Blue Island, maybe, on a clear day.
Ah! That would be very good RY.
But let me say getting the background images/backdrop in early in the process is much easier than trying to fit it in later. ;)
The rough surface of the wall is a challenge.
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Michael,
Good points, and I figure I will have to print on thick cardstock, or mount on thin styrene. I know there are some challenges in not working from the back, but I didn't want to wait to get started, nor did I have time to fly to Chicago for photos, although I have connected through there a few times, must not in summer when I would want the photos.
Worse comes to worse, we did paint the walls blue, but I could install 2' high masonite to get that smooth surface, as I had on my last layout. Actually, that was 4" high all the way to the storage lid we built on that layout, but I may want to use the space above here for proto photos of the same scene. Seeing the top of the backdrop hasn't reduced my enjoyment of other similar layoust.
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I don't think seeing the top of the backdrop is a big deal either RY.
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Nice yards. Any idea on car capacity?
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Well that was quick,,lol.
.....
Adios for now,, more pics coming. Wyatt
Wow! Lot's of great progress!! You had a very busy weekend I guess :D
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Paul, yes a busy weekend it was. I do not get to come up much...so I like to cram as many hours in as I can.
If I get tired of doing something, I work on something else for awhile.
Coca cola and Copenhagen keep me going most of the time.
Adios, Wyatt
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... I am planning on going to Chicago and getting a photo of that actual Broadway St. crossing.
In the mean time, you can probably get some good mockups from Google street view. Here's how it looks from the middle of the Broadway St grade crossing.
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=broadway+street+blue+island&hl=en&ll=41.650189,-87.686371&spn=0.01924,0.046091&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.632176,94.394531&hnear=Broadway+St,+Blue+Island,+Illinois&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.650189,-87.686371&panoid=xq3XOuu_oSn8g1rouWj0pg&cbp=12,77.96,,0,11.74 (https://maps.google.com/maps?q=broadway+street+blue+island&hl=en&ll=41.650189,-87.686371&spn=0.01924,0.046091&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=41.632176,94.394531&hnear=Broadway+St,+Blue+Island,+Illinois&t=m&z=15&layer=c&cbll=41.650189,-87.686371&panoid=xq3XOuu_oSn8g1rouWj0pg&cbp=12,77.96,,0,11.74)
Looking great. Keep the pics and vids coming!!
Coxy
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Coxy,
Thanks. I have looked at those, and hope to model something close. For instance, I bought a Kate's Garage because that house on the right has a separate garage. I don't recall the first house on the left being a split level like that! I also have what I need to do that junk/auto salvage place. So, good to keep researching as memory is funny.
Nice to see Broadway curves a bit. I may need to move that curve closer to the tracks in the N scale version to hide the joint and its always easier to hide the end of a road if it curves off behind trees rather than goes dead straight.....
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This looks great, a very interesting area to model in N-scale. Drive by that area quite often to see family.
Keep the posts coming!
Mike
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Well it is has been awhile since anything new has been posted about the Mansfeild sub on the IHB.
This past trip I was able to get all torti and blue points installed and wired up. The last of the control panels were done. I tell ya,, I am getting sick of DPDT's, Bi-Polar LED's and soldering. GEEZ :scared: :scared: :scared:
I am gueesing that there is about 60+ torti. All of those have LED's and toggles. The crossovers involve 3 LED's and one toggle. And the blue points,,, are ,,,you know,,, manual. Four of those. There are a couple of Turnouts that still need a postive throw mech..I think anywhere from 3-5. Maybe later.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-K6KO3cZTU8E/UZLAY2z6W0I/AAAAAAAAAaA/iHu8vvFmBD4/w548-h308-p-o/IMG_20130506_010500_790.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rJtXG02tFmQ/UZLAgWlcL7I/AAAAAAAAAaI/r-GidLqac64/w547-h308-p-o/IMG_20130506_221748_471.jpg)
Work was completed on the refinery and grain complex. The refinery has capacity of 10-12 cars, depending on what size tank cars you use. The grain area should be able to hold about 24-26 covered hoppers
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-O_DdUyfcDKI/UYUgsGscccI/AAAAAAAAAY0/w6v_Pj43p5g/w503-h282-p-o/IMG_20130504_095142_704.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YMdLv1BPlYw/UYUidA4GasI/AAAAAAAAAZA/IxYyh1zIDUo/w548-h308-p-o/IMG_20130504_095837_768.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-SHGy4VvlSFo/UYUofK4mecI/AAAAAAAAAZU/4cB_Rxm3yKg/w547-h308-p-o/IMG_20130504_095606_294.jpg)
Yes I know, those are chemical covered hoppers in the pics,,, the grain LO's are shorter so more can be squeezed in there.
Here is a quick video I shot using my phone. ( I forgot I had the HDcam in the car).
Well there ya have it...
Adios, Wyatt
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Looks good!
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thanx doug,,now it is time to work on mine.
Adios, Wyatt
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Thanks to Wyatt and Doug for all their help. A guy couldn't ask for a better crew.
I know not much looks different this time, but Wyatt spend most time on that wiring. Oh, I could do it myself, but I would probably then jump off a bridge, so I am glad to have him.
I have now been running the layout and the track work seems very reliable. Any problems I have had are human error (no way to fix that!) or faulty rolling stock (uneven weights, crapumates, out of guage wheels, etc.) Take those out of the train to the RIP track and all runs well (even with, mostly, the uneven weights)
As Wyatt's video shows, I have accomplished goal number one of running long trains. 23 autoracks is pretty impressive to me. Starting to modify my old Excel switch lists for ops on the new layout, and have done some scenery shell work, but it is not far along.
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Upper level of my layout is running flawlessly. No derailments not accounted for by my own operator error.
Wish I could say the same for the helix. While I don't think its anything with the trackwork, heavy trains, accumate couplers, etc. make getting trains up from staging a real problem. Specifically, somewhere along the line, a coupler breaks, or the train breaks apart. Eventually, I suppose I will make all 700 freight cars "perfect" and they will work, but until then......maybe I need to break those 25-30 car trains in two, although that would be a pain.
Won't be an issue most nights as I can set up one or two trains for yard or local switching for my own self. Still wondering how it will play out as I develop my ops scheme for some bigger sessions. Even if I tune all the trains, and they make it unscathed up the helix, it takes a long time! Maybe I can say its like waiting for a train to come in the proto......
Anyway, just as I put 2" spacing between staging tracks based on past staging experience, I would have to say that I would add small straight sections to any helix on every level (making it an oval) so that when those inevitable uncouplings happen, you at least have a place to recouple cars. And make it a rerailer in case one truck comes off in the recoupling process.......
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nicely done.....
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making the 700 perfect will definitely take some time. Maybe do a train at a time.
Might have to bring up a train ( 30 cars) in two sections... I am sure you will figure something out.
Keep on keep'n on
Adios Wyatt
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Thanks to Wyatt and Doug for all their help. A guy couldn't ask for a better crew.
I know not much looks different this time, but Wyatt spend most time on that wiring. Oh, I could do it myself, but I would probably then jump off a bridge, so I am glad to have him.
I have now been running the layout and the track work seems very reliable. Any problems I have had are human error (no way to fix that!) or faulty rolling stock (uneven weights, crapumates, out of guage wheels, etc.) Take those out of the train to the RIP track and all runs well (even with, mostly, the uneven weights)
As Wyatt's video shows, I have accomplished goal number one of running long trains. 23 autoracks is pretty impressive to me. Starting to modify my old Excel switch lists for ops on the new layout, and have done some scenery shell work, but it is not far along.
Great Stuff. Glad you are up and running trains! (And, way to go Wyatt!!)
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Well here is another report. This past week,5-8 August some more work was done on the IHB.
1. Installed an PSX-4. So now there is 6 power districts. One for each staging yard(2), One for the helix to include entry and exit trackage. One for the main, and one for each the front yard and the back yard. I did manage to notice one thing... while wiring the PSX4 , I was using my standard of black wire towards the wall and the red wire to the aisle. I was movin along,, then just by chance I noticed lokies were shorting out on the frogs,,hmm. Well,, after much cussing and swearing that I will never wire a layout again, I came to find out all I had to do was change the booster wires coming into the PSX4,, fixed!!!. Thank god,, because I was ready to get the sledge-o-matic at 3 am in the morning.
2. One of the major projects going into this layout was the lift out section.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OtP_zbVcyzU/URpQPD-AjII/AAAAAAAAACI/fc-NFpXILkM/w795-h596-no/2012-07-15+17.38.51.jpg)
Here we have are beautiful model Jeff Brauer holding what is to be the lift out. ( pic was taken at the very beginning,,duh)
We are able to get pc tie sections from American Tie and Timber. These are the same sections that MC Fujiwara uses on his freemo modules and in his videos describing the way to create the track joints. Well any who,, to the pics!!!
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hE7gZVMkAyM/UgU_bzTlADI/AAAAAAAAAdM/xKD9K-5srTs/w795-h596-no/IMG_20130806_140414_431.jpg)
This is the rightihand side of the lift out as you standing in the room fixin to walk out. Quite a nice array of trackwork.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Yk3Hpd-wWNU/UgU_K2naeaI/AAAAAAAAAc8/F1Lhsiz-h34/w447-h596-no/IMG_20130805_163849_998.jpg)
Here is the left hand side, as the train moves this the way to gibson yard, to include the backyard and front yard.
I was so nice to get this finally done,,I was tired of standing up too soon and getting torti'd. Meaning of getting tortoise switch machines stabbed in my back.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KdOafhCu05Q/UgU-woXsqMI/AAAAAAAAAck/7rZo57-oeu0/w447-h596-no/IMG_20130806_154245_495.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-FIJ_yCNN_Ew/UgU_CmdplYI/AAAAAAAAAc0/m77mwHhla3Y/w795-h596-no/IMG_20130806_140203_228.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NTeF62Oj8So/UgU-51ISaMI/AAAAAAAAAcs/iuK0PnaDWow/w795-h596-no/IMG_20130806_140114_965.jpg)
I was quite pleased with the way it turned out. In the pics you can see I installed latches, and metal plates to help with alignment. To make the electrical bridge connection, I used a 4 and 12 position male/female connector.
3. Another milestone.. The Gibson yard engine and roundhouse area. The only issue that was had with this area was the control box for the turntable,, after much frustration, cussing, and then placing a call to Walthers themselves. We find out that analog control box " wore out". I call BS on that,, they just want you to fork 180$ for the DCC upgrade. Away we go with the pics!!!!
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-f_nOLFPSW5I/UgU_SlR_OtI/AAAAAAAAAdE/KiHcJFuqMR0/w795-h596-no/IMG_20130808_143446_680.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8kx4wrbI2Rw/UgU_9LH-b9I/AAAAAAAAAd0/g30CdwLEmIw/w795-h596-no/IMG_20130808_143603_439.jpg)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-f_kWv_LDp-I/UgU_n4jtcPI/AAAAAAAAAdc/qqb1xiZowO0/w795-h596-no/IMG_20130808_143646_966.jpg)
Just a little more work, and then scenery can start. And then the Mechanical, Electrical, and Bridges and Buidling depts can take a break.
I was curious to see how many Turnouts there are,so I did a count and found out there are 108, and 90 something tortoise switch machines. All tortoise machines have toggles for control and bi-color LED's for indication.
Well there ya have it. Layout runs great, control panels, work great,, overall a great expierence!!! I think I see black and red wires in my sleep along with a soldering iron. :o
Adios Till Next Time,, Wyatt
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Nice update! I'm pretty amped to cruise down and see the layout now. Hopefully I can get in on the action of some of the scenery...weathering/ballasting track, etc.
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Doug, you can do all that stuff you want!!! I pointed Jeff in the direction of track weathering article a month or two ago in the mag that shall remain nameless.
Part of me kind of hates to see the clean wood and cork, and neatness go away. But also another part of me is ready for the vision to come to frutition.
Adios Wyatt
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Well, I really would like to get in on the fun. Hopefully after the move I can make time for some work sessions.
I get where you're coming from about the clean look. I wonder what would happen if we just painted the whole thing (structures and all) a dark gray. Sort of an "all the world's a stage" concept...the rolling stock would be the focal point. Hmmm....
I have always wondered what a Black & White (or Sepia) layout would look like. Make everything gray tones to appear is if viewing from a B&W TV.
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Doug, that could be done. Have everything gray,, and just have the harbor units in color.. Hmm
I... Need...Sleep...
Wyatt
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Wow, what a great layout! :o
Any update?
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Not yet postman,, going up there this weekend, maybe have some news by then.
See ya, Wyatt
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Well I am here to update the progress, even though it may not be great progress ,it is progress.
The trip before this one, it was decided that the duplicate road number lokies needed to be re-numbered. So I set out on that task. I did three lokies, every stinkin number had to be cut out by itself. Getting the old numbers off took some effort, making the black stripe fade ALOT. Some masking and re-painting was required before the application of the numbers.
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-T0WI5puK8v0/UlL8esy8tjI/AAAAAAAAA08/f2AMurjlN0o/w958-h323-no/IMG_20130827_014303_391-1.jpg)
On this trip I had a few things to do...
1. Install and wire the R.I./ IAIS trackage. This track comes and goes from nowheresville. It just there to create the scene. Still it need to be wired so that locos and passenger Bi-Level cars will have working lights. One thing I thought about was making a cassette to create additional track lenght so that when videos are taken, you can see a train move on the R.I./IAIS. That will be a future project, maybe.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dAfMmiM4Nvo/UlL8i-lqy8I/AAAAAAAAA1M/Upcv-ut9kOA/w443-h568-no/IMG_20131004_182951_139-1.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-BTsQbgFjxM4/UlL8ko0xY3I/AAAAAAAAA1U/VMjdolf5gqg/w957-h529-no/IMG_20131004_182926_264-1.jpg)
2. Paint the fasica, the idea that Jeff and I had was to paint the fascia black with and orange stripe. I have to say,,,, I think it came out GREAT!!!!! Not too much,, but just right. Adds some serious POW to the layout.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mZsJBu7Lbpc/UlL7x_qYavI/AAAAAAAAA0k/hdc-QgSWJq8/w757-h568-no/overall+fascia.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fS8sOL-ypyw/UlMC2i0YgpI/AAAAAAAAA1w/9GCGgC9sUug/w757-h568-no/B.I.+Junction+fascia.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-z0tCCx9scgc/UlL71bmWYQI/AAAAAAAAA0s/Mjf5zIhkjK4/w757-h568-no/roundhouse+and+A+yard+fascia-control+panel.JPG)
You can see in those pics,, that some of the control panels are pretty close to matching and that some are off. I guess Kinko's had to throw a kink in there.lol
Another task that was required was the programming of the consists that will power the multiple trains for the layout. Some decoders gave me fits, some worked like a champ. More towards working like a champ. I do know that NCE decoders gave me a major headache. It seems that once a consist address is programmed into a NCE decoder it " forgets" the original loco number, so I had to reset CV 19 to 0. And then the decoder amnesia was cured. So after 26 consists and 71 different locos. I was done with programming consists, till next time.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-xPRMVPdLo1U/UlL7ibY57zI/AAAAAAAAA0U/Qiz6Ie1NU2s/w795-h596-no/consists+4.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-PQ_z6DjRKAM/UlL7PhOcMGI/AAAAAAAAAz8/IZVYhnpEhdI/w447-h596-no/consists+2.JPG)
Another thing that had to be done, was finishing the painting of the track. That means all track that is visable. The last area that needed to be done was the area in front of the helix and then the liftout section also.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-wYHtg9mK8kI/UlL7cLxdfiI/AAAAAAAAA0M/Q9qDSTaOE1U/w795-h596-no/helix-Francisco.JPG)
Yes I know the fascia is not cut out for the canal yet, hey rome was not built in a day either.lol
So there you have it, not jaw dropping progress, not floor to ceiling scenery progress, but just plain ol' progress. Now I need to work on my own layout. The weather is getting nice here in Texas, time to open the garage doors, jam out to my Dokken channel on Pandora and get some work done.
Till next time, Wyatt
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Just in time for Halloween!!!! :trollface: :P
Seriously, that looks freakin' SWEET. I definitely think it looks a thousand times better than I thought it would. And of course--ahem--I had complete confidence in the idea.
The power pic is very nice, btw. Sorry I couldn't make it down there this weekend.
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Wyatt,
Like Doug I think that fascia looks awesome! Nice job.
Hey a little progress is better than no progress.
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Yes, Halloween,,, I know right!!! I was thinking that as I was painting. Layout really pops,, just freaking awesome man!!!
Adios, Wyatt
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Sorry for the late comments on my own railroad. I have been busy. So busy, in fact, that due to a late flight, a business proposal and some prepaid and very expensive hockey tickets on Saturday (Go Stars!) I couldn't fully participate in my own railroad weekend. In fact, just back from another trip I took starting last Sunday when Wyatt left. Maybe some scenery this weekend.....but a cluttered garage calls now that weather is cool.
Not sure why, but I always liked Black and Orange, selecting it for more than one of my old dorm team football jerseys. Maybe its why I like the IHB.....I had seen some blue and gray type fascia to simulate RR colors instead of perhaps mocking subsoil or natural green colors. I do like the bold approach, even if it may take away from the trains. If nothing else, it proves that a painted fascia really upgrades a layout over an unpainted Masonite.
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Jeff, in honor of your now dismantled layout, here are a couple of videos I shot from the ops session last year.
BTW, I just learned how to edit and post videos to YouTube. Still need to learn how to add music.
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Marshall,
Thanks, and I appreciate it as a nice memory. Hope I can save those files. My base level scenery needed some work to be ready for prime time.......
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:? :? :? Why did it have to go away!!!! :| :| :|
Adios Wyatt
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:? :? :? Why did it have to go away!!!! :| :| :|
Adios Wyatt
When the wife you want to keep wants a new house to be closer to the grandkids, it means the railroad you keep has to go away......life just isn't fair!
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When the wife you want to keep wants a new house to be closer to the grandkids, it means the railroad you keep has to go away......life just isn't fair!
Yep... that's how it works!
Still, applaud the effort. You put a ton of work into that. The yard itself is stunning.
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I know, I know. Oh well..easy come..easy go. Not saying it is easy...just sounded good...not trying to be bitter.lol
Y-it
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Yep... that's how it works!
Still, applaud the effort. You put a ton of work into that. The yard itself is stunning.
Michael,
Thanks, and Wyatt (especially) and Doug were big parts of the crew. Large layout like that cannot be built alone.
Funny thing about the layout is that I did learn the lesson of so many others before me, that complexity leads to more frustration than enjoyment. For all that, most nights all I had time to do is run one train in a loop a few times, but most often, switch one job, like the grain elevators, corn syrup tracks, etc.
My favorite DFW layout is Ole Melhouse Dakota Northern (well, Coldriver's may top it, but I won't have that space). My plan is shorter reaches, no tortoise, no helix, no turntable, just 2 tracks open staging near the back, no grades, no big yard (road switching seems more fun than yard switching, and I love yard switching). My old layout had the "Cliff" Branch, where we ran up the hill to a 4 track yard, had a lot of trailing and facing point turnouts. It was the most fun to switch, and I will try to replicate that.
Anyway, for all that work and money, I wasn't as sad to see the IHB go as I thought I would be. I have an 8 x 17 storage room in the new house, and with all the turnouts, some plywood, lights, etc., I think I can build a terminal/branch line layout for under $1000. And, have just as much, or more, fun running it.
Instead of running nearly every road at once, I will have to be content to run one road at a time. Instead of vast staging, I save the construction, bring trains out from a visible interchange yard, trading putting a few dozen cars on the track each session for gobs of complexity, etc.
A guest likes Chessie? Clean the wheels of a Chessie/BO/CO/WM loco set on the shelves, plop it on the track, they get to switch with their favorite road name. It will have to remain Midwest generic, so I will call it the "Annie Ware" Short Line Industrial Terminal.....or the AWSH*T for short....seems to sum up my model railroading skills succinctly!